$5.00
$20.00
$15.00
$30.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Great Western Trail» Forums » General

Subject: Insufficient starting order compensation? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
LCG 74160
msg tools
mb
The first player has two important advantages.

First, he is guaranteed to play at least the same number of turns as the other players. The last player will very likely (3 times out of 4) play one turn less than the first player.

Second, for his first turn, the first player has first choice on the markets. He could grab the only cow of a given color or the only worker of a given type.

The only compensation for this is a bit of money. The last player in a 4 players games will have 3 dollars more but also 3 players before him to grab the interesting opportunities.

Do you think that the money compensation is enough?

In addition, the initial objectives seem to be quite different in terms of difficulty. Having 2 buildings plus a hazard tile seems easy compared to 2 train stations plus a green teepee.

Maybe we should do like in Russian Railroads: the last player gets all 4 initial objectives cards, picks one and passes the 3 remaining to the 3rd player, etc. Up to the first player who will be left with the initial objective card that nobody else wanted.

Do you think this would help compensating the first player advantage?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Aventura
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
lcg74160 wrote:

Do you think this would help compensating the first player advantage?


I disagree with your premise that going earlier is advantageous; being able to see where your opponents start is a significant advantage to going later.

I think there's enough interaction and randomness in this game that I'd never bother to consider the balance of the starting positions, but if anything my inclination would be to see going later as an advantage.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JonGetsGames
United States
CA
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's a data point, in last nights 3p game the 3rd player squeaked by with a 4 point victory even though I delivered two more times then they did. When you do so many trips around I think the advantage of one additional action gets lost in the noise, also $1,2, or 3 extra can be a big deal early in the game for getting things going.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Case
England
Epsom
Surrey
flag msg tools
designer
https://www.facebook.com/amuse.ment.92
badge
mbmbmbmb
Mindful that the starting hand of each player will most likely be different, this belief in the 1st player having an unfair advantage, appears to ignore the rule that players may start wherever they wish on the board. To be able to see where everyone else goes and to be able to start in a position to capitalise on this seems to negate any advantage listed. Not forgetting that with only one cowboy, they can't just grab any colour cow from the market and to pay $6 for one low value heffer seems a bit of a lame move.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Tavener
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
flag msg tools
Would you like to donate your body to science?
mbmbmbmbmb
Big Bad Lex wrote:
Not forgetting that with only one cowboy, they can't just grab any colour cow from the market and to pay $6 for one low value heffer seems a bit of a lame move.


Really? From our experience buying one of those $6 basic cattle first round feels like a very important purchase to be able to make. That guy is gonna help with all future deliveries for the rest of the game. The game appears to give you a very important first round decision. Do you hire someone, or buy a $6 basic cow? Or do you press your luck and try to do both.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Case
England
Epsom
Surrey
flag msg tools
designer
https://www.facebook.com/amuse.ment.92
badge
mbmbmbmb
chubber911 wrote:
Really? ..... That guy is gonna help with all future deliveries for the rest of the game.


Really? That guy will only be part of a delivery where it is in the four cards in hand when you deliver to Kansas. In a 4 player game it would be generally around for a third of all deliveries (actually less). If you get more valuable cattle, its probably going to be the least favourite card to have in hand.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Combs
United States
Spring Lake Park
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Big Bad Lex wrote:
chubber911 wrote:
Really? ..... That guy is gonna help with all future deliveries for the rest of the game.


Really? That guy will only be part of a delivery where it is in the four cards in hand when you deliver to Kansas. In a 4 player game it would be generally around for a third of all deliveries (actually less). If you get more valuable cattle, its probably going to be the least favourite card to have in hand.


Even if you never increase your hand size above 4 cards, the best hand you can have when arriving at KC will be a level 5 purple, a level 4 brown, and 2 different level 3 red/blue/yellow cows. So that first level 3 cow will still be important throughout the game.
If you increase your hand size to 5, then you'd need all 3 colors of level 3 cows for the best hand. And if you increase it to 6, you'd still need one of your starting level 2 cows.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Case
England
Epsom
Surrey
flag msg tools
designer
https://www.facebook.com/amuse.ment.92
badge
mbmbmbmb
IF its in your hand. My point being it won't be there for every delivery.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Tavener
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
flag msg tools
Would you like to donate your body to science?
mbmbmbmbmb
Big Bad Lex wrote:
If you get more valuable cattle, its probably going to be the least favourite card to have in hand.

What kind of hand do I have to be holding, where my 3 value cattle is of least value? A perfect hand, you mean?

Big Bad Lex wrote:
IF its in your hand. My point being it won't be there for every delivery.

Why aren't you trying to get it there? There's the auxiliary actions that let you draw 2 and discard 2, or remove cards in your deck from the game, plus all the sales you can make along the way to pare down your hand as best as possible. How do you gather that it's in your hand for less than a third of all deliveries?

There's games where I'm buying $6 basic cattle in the final turns of the game, strictly for points. You don't need to stock up on cowboys to win. Having 2 cowboys lets you access all the cattle, and then using one to draw extras for the cattle market leaves me with 1 cowboy to make a $6 purchase. You say that buying a basic cow for $6 is a lame move. I completely disagree. No decision, based solely at surface level, could be called a 'lame move' when you have an entire game's worth of strategy to take into account.
2 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Case
England
Epsom
Surrey
flag msg tools
designer
https://www.facebook.com/amuse.ment.92
badge
mbmbmbmb
Trying your best and succeeding aren't the same. Unless of course you managed to reduce down to four cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.