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1846: The Race for the Midwest» Forums » General

Subject: Money Replacement rss

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Shawn Dumas
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I purchased some money cards (https://www.thegamecrafter.com/games/money-cards) to replace the paper money (yes, I know that most use poker chips; I wanted cards...) and I was wondering if the 4 sets equaling 18,000 would be enough?
 
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Runs with scissors
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The rules posted at Deep Thought indicate that the game comes with $12,000 in cash, and that the bank with 5 players is $9,000, so you should be fine.

Source: http://www.deepthoughtgames.com/games/1846/rules.pdf
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jay
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I am glad you posted this, I hate poker chips but those cards look super cool. I may have to get some.
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Tim Koppang
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Interesting, but expensive. $27 for one set of 144 cards.
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Shawn Dumas
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Nice chips are roughly equal in cost, no?
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Shawn Dumas
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autumnweave wrote:
The rules posted at Deep Thought indicate that the game comes with $12,000 in cash, and that the bank with 5 players is $9,000, so you should be fine.

Source: http://www.deepthoughtgames.com/games/1846/rules.pdf


Doh! I should have checked there first. Thank you.
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Shawn Dumas
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lifelesspoet wrote:
I am glad you posted this, I hate poker chips but those cards look super cool. I may have to get some.


Wow, I thought I was alone. I spent the afternoon looking all over for nice money decks and these were by far the best.
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Tim Koppang
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Tulkas wrote:
Nice chips are roughly equal in cost, no?

No doubt, and I didn't mean it as a criticism. I was just expecting playing cards to be cheaper.
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Mike Anastasia
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tckoppang wrote:
Tulkas wrote:
Nice chips are roughly equal in cost, no?

No doubt, and I didn't mean it as a criticism. I was just expecting playing cards to be cheaper.
I spent around $120 on the custom 300-chip set that I use to play 1846, but I was working hard to cut every possible corner in terms of cost while still getting what I wanted in terms of chip colors and denominations.

Poker chip cost is highly variable. You could get a set for $30 at Target that would be adequate for playing '46, or you could easily spend $500+ bucks if you wanted to.
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Glenn Martin
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They're nice but not distinct enough. You need different colours for the denominations so ones based on Canadian currency should work wonderfully.
 
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Bob Davis
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So these cards only have 4 denominations and many poker chip sets only have 4 colors. Is that a problem for the bank for 1846 or do we need to try to replicate the denominations of the money that comes with the game?
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Shawn Dumas
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These have more denominations: https://www.thegamecrafter.com/games/notaphilist-money-cards...
 
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J C Clearclaw has been kind enough - on numerous occasions - to share his thoughts in intricate detail on what denominations and quantity work best for 18XX. I don't have the link handy, but he does surveil the 18XX games and may be along shortly to share his thoughts (again).

If you are new to 18XX, I would recommend just using the paper money that comes with the game or cannibalizing some poker chips you have around the house, or buy a $10 cheapo set from your local store.

*If* - *IF* - you end up liking 18XX enough to play it often, it will probably be worth spending some money on some poker chips. They shorten the time it takes to make change, and with so many transactions it should significantly shorten game time. That's the main reason to use them. There are many other ways to shorten game times, too.

And I'm also speaking from a significant deficiency of 18XX experience, so I'll shut up now.
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Tim Koppang
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cmontgo2 wrote:
J C Clearclaw has been kind enough - on numerous occasions - to share his thoughts in intricate detail on what denominations and quantity work best for 18XX. I don't have the link handy, but he does surveil the 18XX games and may be along shortly to share his thoughts (again).

Actually, it's right in his profile. Generally, five denominations is enough, and can actually speed up play. But five denominations includes $500s, which you can do without for small-bank games assuming you have an excess of $100s.
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Shawn Dumas
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I just emailed the designer and asked for a $500 card for the first style. I'll report back...
 
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Mike Anastasia
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tckoppang wrote:
cmontgo2 wrote:
J C Clearclaw has been kind enough - on numerous occasions - to share his thoughts in intricate detail on what denominations and quantity work best for 18XX. I don't have the link handy, but he does surveil the 18XX games and may be along shortly to share his thoughts (again).

Actually, it's right in his profile. Generally, five denominations is enough, and can actually speed up play. But five denominations includes $500s, which you can do without for small-bank games assuming you have an excess of $100s.
There is a wide range between what is adequate and what is preferable, and there is an even wider range between what different people and different groups prefer. 4 denominations is probably adequate to play '46, especially if you have lots of $100's or are willing to work out the endgame on paper. Some people might even prefer it that way. I suspect most would prefer to add $500's to the mix described above.

I personally hang out at a different end of the preference spectrum. Eric and I often play 1846 with 9(!) different denominations of poker chip: 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, and 411. Others would probably hate this setup, but I like it. (I won't speak for Eric)
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Robert Hahn
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"…and 411"

Wait, what??
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Mike Anastasia
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roberthahn wrote:
"…and 411"

Wait, what??
It's perhaps more fun to discover on your own, but every 4-5 games I observe the following happen to a new player:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Open a second company at 150 (max opening share price). Buy 3 shares. Need to sell more shares during the OR to raise money for a train. Those are worth 137 (one box below 150 on the stock chart) and can sell at most 3 because only 3 are held by players. What's 137x3? By the time they've answered, I've handed over a 411 chip from the bottom of the box.
Because it gets spent immediately, I only keep one 411 chip on hand. But it comes in handy too often to ignore.

See also:
(but note that my 411 chips are bright pink which makes them better than that one!)
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J C Lawrence
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MyNameIsFourteen wrote:
tckoppang wrote:
cmontgo2 wrote:
J C Clearclaw has been kind enough - on numerous occasions - to share his thoughts in intricate detail on what denominations and quantity work best for 18XX. I don't have the link handy, but he does surveil the 18XX games and may be along shortly to share his thoughts (again).


Actually, it's right in his profile. Generally, five denominations is enough, and can actually speed up play. But five denominations includes $500s, which you can do without for small-bank games assuming you have an excess of $100s.
There is a wide range between what is adequate and what is preferable, and there is an even wider range between what different people and different groups prefer. 4 denominations is probably adequate to play '46, especially if you have lots of $100's or are willing to work out the endgame on paper. Some people might even prefer it that way. I suspect most would prefer to add $500's to the mix described above.


All of my recommended distributions (other than the 100-count sets) include a 5th colour for $500s. Several also include a 6th colour for $2,000s.

While I agree that this is largely stylistic, and I have used chip distributions with 9 or even 12 colours (eg 1/2/3/5/10/20/25/50/100/200/500/1,000 for a friend's set), I prefer low distributions with fewer colours on several scores:

-- There's generally only one reasonable way, one mix of specific chip colours and counts, to construct any given amount for payouts etc. No $85 is 4x20+5 or 50+20+5+5+5 or ...etc.

-- As the chip values are widely distinct, there's less tendency to randomly cash up between relatively proximate values. As such there's a lot less fiddling with money to/from the bank.

-- Learning what values are what is easier for new players (or players new to that chipset) as there are both relatively few colours and they follow a visually obvious progression. Not visually obvious in that grays are necessarily $20, but visually obvious in that the most populous chips are the least valuable, next most populous are a bit more valuable etc, and the simple numeric progression of values makes the natural and naive assumption also right as to which should be which.

-- As the chip values almost approximate to orders of magnitude, assessing the values of chip stacks is quick/easy. Purples are $500, blacks are $100...and thus a quick glance that only encompasses those colours will indicate the gross magnitude of even the most dirty stack. If you need to know more closely, only then descend into the details of the lesser colours. Adding closer intermediates, like $50s, increases the number of colours required for such quick order-of-magnitude assessments as there are now multiple reasonable ways of representing those larger values.
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Eric Brosius
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roberthahn wrote:
"…and 411"

Wait, what??

It's really fun when the new person asks "Why do you have a $411 chip?" and then later in the game they do what Mike describes (in his spoiler box,) and after some mental arithmetic, they say "I need $411 in my corporation" and you hand them the chip!

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Eric Brosius
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Note that especially for 1846: The Race for the Midwest, $20 chips work better than $25 chips because the basic cost of laying a tile is $20.

But there are many other games where costs of tiles and/or tokens are multiples of $20.
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J C Lawrence
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Values in the 18xx in general are multiples of $10, and more often than not are also multiples of $20. Examples would include terrain costs which are generally $40, $60, $80, $100, $120, $160, $180 or $200. Similarly train costs are also generally multiples of $20, eg in 1830: $80, $180, $300, $450, $630, $800/$1,100. Dividend values of course are all over the map (though not quite evenly as there's a clear preponderance of multiples of 5, 6, and 2).
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Mikko Saari
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Eric Brosius wrote:
Note that especially for 1846: The Race for the Midwest, $20 chips work better than $25 chips because the basic cost of laying a tile is $20.

But there are many other games where costs of tiles and/or tokens are multiples of $20.


Yeah, my set with denominations has $25 chips, but at least in 1846 they are played as $20, because it makes things so much easier.
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Bruce Murphy
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Tulkas wrote:
I purchased some money cards (https://www.thegamecrafter.com/games/money-cards) to replace the paper money (yes, I know that most use poker chips; I wanted cards...) and I was wondering if the 4 sets equaling 18,000 would be enough?


Why do you prefer cards?

B>
 
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Shawn Dumas
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It's a personality quirk. I care a lot about how a physical thing feels/looks. I've gotten samples of chips and in order to purchase chips that will feel/look 'right' to me I'd have to spend more than I am willing. (And don't get me started on a case and individual caddies and...; I know myself too well to think that I can get out cheaply.)

The texture, weight, color, sound, pattern, and even if it has poker/cards/casino related imagery all matter to me.

But a nice deck of linen cards that have no other connotation other than denominations are easy and cheap in comparison, and don't slow down a game the way paper money will. Yes they are likely not as convenient as chips but they are closer.

The other reason is that I can more easily use the cards for games that need hidden information slightly easier that with chips (without an additional purchase).
 
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