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Subject: Can someone confirm I spread the fire correctly? rss

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Justin
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This is with a 3-2-2. Note that the active flame in the middle overran a 2 water line.

Also, the crew at the bottom is evacuating I'm pretty sure.



I'm loving this game, but if I'm playing correctly, this thing is tough! Is the implication here that fighting forest fires is actually difficult job? whistle

edit: I know it's hard to tell since you can't see the terrain very well. Let's assume I have the fire going with the wind correct because I feel pretty good about those rules. It's mainly the back burning in the southwest that I'm wondering about. Does a 2-hex back burn then flank?
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Ryan
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Let's use hex 1407 as an example.
1 It backed two hexes to get to 1109 expending both momentum points available.
2 It backed two hexes to get to 1206, expending both momentum points available.
3 It backed two hexes to get to 1309, expending both momentum points available.
4 It backed two hexes to get to 1409, expending both momentum points in that direction.
5 It used a combination of backing then flanking fire to move two hexes to 1509, expending both momentum points available.
6 Because of the hand line in 1307 and 1508 the fire in hex 1407 does not have enough momentum to flank into either of those hexes. Had either of those hexes had just one hand line, the fire would have flanked into that hex but then would have advanced no further, having spent both flanking momentum points to overcome the hex's natural spread value (1) and the hand line's spread value (1).

Remember that fire may combine movement in more than one direction, utilizing head/flanking, backing/flanking, or all three direction by head/flanking/backing fire. Just a reminder to see section 6.3, especially the two numbered lines near the end of the section. The fire must stop once it exceeds the movement allowance in any one direction and may never spread further than the momentum allowance in its direction of greatest spread. For example, using your 3-2-2 above, a fire could flank one hex (cost 1), then advance two hexes forward via head fire (cost 2) and then would have to stop. It could not advance using head, flanking, or backing fire even though it has one momentum point remaining in all of those directions because it has expended 3 momentum points, which is the maximum rate of spread possible in the head fire direction.

There is a good example of this in Example 3 on the illustrated player aid.

Edit: It looks like you have a pretty could understanding of this because your fire spread at the head of the fire appears correct.
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Ryan
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And yes, your crew on the south end should evacuate per the rules. They can easily evacuate so they are not overrun and killed.

I've got some ideas posted somewhere about a variant for evacuation as I think the game rules as written are a bit too harsh/unrealistic. But don't concern yourself with that now!
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Justin
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That's helpful. Thank you! Forward and flanking movement make sense to me, but for some reason backing got me stuck. It seemed odd for the fire to branch out 2 hexes in 3 different directions without filling in the gaps between, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

For example, if I had a flame in the open with a back strength of 2, which of the following would it do?

edit: Whoops... that didn't work. Let me figure the illustration out. Maybe a Google Drawing shortly.
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Ryan
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joestin wrote:
That's helpful. Thank you! Forward and flanking movement make sense to me, but for some reason backing got me stuck. It seemed odd for the fire to branch out 2 hexes in 3 different directions without filling in the gaps between, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

On the chance that this helps, let's go to a laboratory where we can control every variable.

In a flat environment with no wind and an equal distribution of combustible fuel, a fire will spread in a perfect circle. When you introduce either wind or slope, the fire will burn in an ellipse. If you look at the fire spread chart, you'll see this modeled. With no wind, the fire spreads equally in all directions. With a little bit of wind, you see the head fire rate of spread increase slightly, enough to visualize a small ellipse where the fire is growing faster lengthwise than perpendicular to the head direction.

When you say this:
Quote:
It seemed odd for the fire to branch out 2 hexes in 3 different directions without filling in the gaps between, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

There should be no gaps in a homogeneous environment. Which is really what the fire in hex 1407 is spreading into via backing fire. It moves two hexes in each direction and there are no gaps. As far as I can tell considering the terrain is mostly obstructed, you played fire spread perfectly in the picture above.

You should model it on an unused map in an area with a large, homogeneous conifer forest type. Give yourself an ignition hex and then grow it using 3-2-2 (and other rates) unimpeded by human (player) action. Hopefully that helps, if you haven't done so already. You shouldn't see any "gaps" in the fire area after you grow it.

Edit: I think it can be a bit confusing because backing fire spreads in three directions, flanking fire spreads in two directions, and head fire spreads in one direction. Which of course is necessary when using hexes to model area. But perhaps it confuses things slightly?
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Steve Norton
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What about 1602? Should that be on fire too?
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Ryan
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I looked past 1602. If 1703 is a conifer hex, then yes, 1602 should be on fire.
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Kerry Anderson
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Count on Ryan to answer all your questions.

I had to double-check my own rules as to whether hexes like 2002 and 2206 should be on fire but the rules state:

1. Movement immediately stops once the movement limit for one direction is reached.

2. The total combined move never exceeds the greater of the rates being considered. There are three examples of fire growth shown on the separate sheet illustrating these and other effects.

In both cases, you have correctly spread it a maximum of 2 in the flank direction while not exceeding the total combined of the greater rate (3 to the head).

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Justin
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ReggieMcFly wrote:
What about 1602? Should that be on fire too?


1703 is a mixedwood hex so it required both back movement points to enter.

And here's my google drawing to confirm I'm back spreading correctly. I'm assuming the right diagram is correct. The left wouldn't seem to make sense thematically.

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Ryan
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Assuming the top hex is the hex from which the backing fire is spreading and the fire has enough momentum points to back two hexes your diagram on the right correctly illustrates backing fire spread.
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Justin
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Perfect.

I think I'll still have some challenges when it comes to multiple obstructions, but for now, I'm sticking with the map I'm on until I get a pretty good handle on basic strategy.

Thanks all for the help and excellent game Kerry! One of the best first impressions I've had since getting into the hobby.
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Ryan
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joestin wrote:
Thanks all for the help and excellent game Kerry! One of the best first impressions I've had since getting into the hobby.

Whoa, high praise!
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Kerry Anderson
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Thanks!
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