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This War of Mine: The Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: Kickstarter comunication rss

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João Guisado
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There seems to be a problem regarding comunication between the backers and Awaken Realms. I'm leaving this thread here so that people without acess to the coments on the kick page can leave their opinions aswell (late backers).

I'm a little worried that Awaken Realms have two other projects that they should have sent to backers but are running late. Plus they have a new project that is live right now. With so much to do I think we won't be recieving our rewards on time.

Also, Awaken Realms said they would post an update late this week... Well, I'm still waiting on that...

I love this game, I've played the digital version of it before even this project existed. When I found out about it I almost instantly (late) backed it. The concept is phenomenal, everything is awesome, from the mechanics to the art, miniatures, etc. Everything except the publisher I guess... This lack of comunication really bothers me. What do you guys think?
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François Mahieu
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I sent them an email 6 weeks ago regarding my pledge. They didn't answer.
 
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Yes, they seem very busy with that "Edge" thing.
Most of the time, I don't read the update emails not to spoil anything and not to be teased too often.
But knowing that they are communicating is reassuring.
If this happen to change, I would be worried.
 
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Brad103
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As a not late backer, I can say that AR has been very prompt in answering questions and sending out updates through the entire command. I was impressed. But ya, It has been a bit since they released an update. But I'm sure we'll see something soon.

Quote:
I'm a little worried that Awaken Realms have two other projects that they should have sent to backers but are running late. Plus they have a new project that is live right now. With so much to do I think we won't be recieving our rewards on time.


I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.
 
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João Guisado
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Braffe wrote:
I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.


I don't understand why's that. You have companies that usually deliver their projects BEFORE the schedule (Red Raven Games, for example). I think it's bad that delivering after the stated date is becoming something we should "Expect". In fact it should be desaproved. Unless something unexpected and justifiable happens that may be an excuse for delaying, obviously.
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Adrian Schmidt
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Je_Pe wrote:
Braffe wrote:
I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.


I don't understand why's that. You have companies that usually deliver their projects BEFORE the schedule (Red Raven Games, for example). I think it's bad that delivering after the stated date is becoming something we should "Expect". In fact it should be desaproved. Unless something unexpected and justifiable happens that may be an excuse for delaying, obviously.


I completely agree with both of these comments. I certainly don't expect them to deliver in February. But I also agree that us customers shouldn't just accept that the delivery date is a fantasy.

I think Kickstarter is shielding the creators way to much from one campaign to the next. All backers should be allowed to rate the campaign and delivery, and that rating should be visible for all of the same creators future campaigns. That way, if you don't keep your promises in one campaign, that will directly affect peoples trust in your future campaigns, not only for people who already know who you are, but for everyone.

I still have very high hopes that this game will be extremely good once it's actually delivered, but I'm starting to question Awaken Realms way of doing business, when they're pushing out a new big campaign, and (according to comments I've seen) they still haven't even delivered their first campaign (This War of Mine is their third).

I guess only time will tell…
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Adrian Schmidt
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By the way, after Brexit and all the mess that lead to in this campaign, why the fuck have they chosen to use GBP in their new campaign, instead of Euro?
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Kristo
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Well, they discovered the sweet tooth of getting a lot of money without delivering. Zero interest loans. I am sure they will deliver, but without the pressure of marketing and sales, only new campaigns and projects are a 'new' source of income to them.
 
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Slashdoctor wrote:
Well, they discovered the sweet tooth of getting a lot of money without delivering. Zero interest loans. I am sure they will deliver, but without the pressure of marketing and sales, only new campaigns and projects are a 'new' source of income to them.


I really hope you are wrong but I just feel like something is not right...
I hope they will deliver within a decent timeframe and, mostly, that the product will live up to the expectations.
Too many projects at once is not a good sign.
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Guy
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SpecularRain wrote:
By the way, after Brexit and all the mess that lead to in this campaign, why the fuck have they chosen to use GBP in their new campaign, instead of Euro?


Because it removes the currency risk from them and places it with the backers.Just the same when European backers have to pledge in dollars for US projects, so what's your problem?
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Guy
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SpecularRain wrote:
Je_Pe wrote:
Braffe wrote:
I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.


I don't understand why's that. You have companies that usually deliver their projects BEFORE the schedule (Red Raven Games, for example). I think it's bad that delivering after the stated date is becoming something we should "Expect". In fact it should be desaproved. Unless something unexpected and justifiable happens that may be an excuse for delaying, obviously.


I completely agree with both of these comments. I certainly don't expect them to deliver in February. But I also agree that us customers shouldn't just accept that the delivery date is a fantasy.

I think Kickstarter is shielding the creators way to much from one campaign to the next. All backers should be allowed to rate the campaign and delivery, and that rating should be visible for all of the same creators future campaigns. That way, if you don't keep your promises in one campaign, that will directly affect peoples trust in your future campaigns, not only for people who already know who you are, but for everyone.

I still have very high hopes that this game will be extremely good once it's actually delivered, but I'm starting to question Awaken Realms way of doing business, when they're pushing out a new big campaign, and (according to comments I've seen) they still haven't even delivered their first campaign (This War of Mine is their third).

I guess only time will tell…



I think that is an excellent idea and so easy to implement, in the way that ebay our Amazon do
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Adrian Schmidt
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PlanBee wrote:
SpecularRain wrote:
By the way, after Brexit and all the mess that lead to in this campaign, why the fuck have they chosen to use GBP in their new campaign, instead of Euro?


Because it removes the currency risk from them and places it with the backers.Just the same when European backers have to pledge in dollars for US projects, so what's your problem?


Well, my "problem" is that they are not a British company. They're Polish, so they can't use their native Zloty, as it's not supported by Kickstarter. Before Brexit, Euro and GBP was probably equivalent choices. One could argue that Brexit didn't happen out of the blue, but I think it's understandable if Awaken Realms didn't closely monitor European politics at the time.

Now that the Brexit vote has happened, the situation is completely different. The GBP to Zloty exchange rate is inarguably more volatile than the Euro to Zloty exchange rate.

I defended Awaken Realms' decision to handle the Brexit situation by locking the exchange rate for the pledge manager. Now I'm having real trouble seeing the choice of GBP for the new campaign as anything but a concious gamble for a GBP rebound, with locked exchange rates as a backup, should the gamble go south.

EDIT: Ps. I do apologise for my use of what some consider foul language in my last post, but it does accurately describe my feelings toward the subject matter.
 
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Kristo
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PlanBee wrote:
SpecularRain wrote:
Je_Pe wrote:
Braffe wrote:
I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.


I don't understand why's that. You have companies that usually deliver their projects BEFORE the schedule (Red Raven Games, for example). I think it's bad that delivering after the stated date is becoming something we should "Expect". In fact it should be desaproved. Unless something unexpected and justifiable happens that may be an excuse for delaying, obviously.


I completely agree with both of these comments. I certainly don't expect them to deliver in February. But I also agree that us customers shouldn't just accept that the delivery date is a fantasy.

I think Kickstarter is shielding the creators way to much from one campaign to the next. All backers should be allowed to rate the campaign and delivery, and that rating should be visible for all of the same creators future campaigns. That way, if you don't keep your promises in one campaign, that will directly affect peoples trust in your future campaigns, not only for people who already know who you are, but for everyone.

I still have very high hopes that this game will be extremely good once it's actually delivered, but I'm starting to question Awaken Realms way of doing business, when they're pushing out a new big campaign, and (according to comments I've seen) they still haven't even delivered their first campaign (This War of Mine is their third).

I guess only time will tell…



I think that is an excellent idea and so easy to implement, in the way that ebay our Amazon do


But they won't do it. Kickstarter has no reason to implement this as it cuts into their own pockets to do so - getting LESS backers means LESS money for them.

It is different with Amazon, as Amazon DOES have customer protection. Kickstarter offers no protection to a customer, so they will not implement this either.
 
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Adrian Schmidt
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Slashdoctor wrote:
But they won't do it. Kickstarter has no reason to implement this as it cuts into their own pockets to do so - getting LESS backers means LESS money for them.

It is different with Amazon, as Amazon DOES have customer protection. Kickstarter offers no protection to a customer, so they will not implement this either.


Well, they won't do it as long as having that feature would cut into their losses more than not having it. That could change, but probably won't, at least not in the near future…
 
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João Guisado
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That's why competition is a good thing. You see, you might look at this as a way of losing profit. But it might be an opportunity to make profit. How so? It can be a business differentiation. Imagine if Indie Go Go starts using this rating system. Are they cutting their own profits or are they capturing Kickstarter's by being a better business model? Then, Kickstarter will have to implement it as well if it starts doing some damage.

Amazon would be better of if it didn't sell products from independent vendors (competition). Why does it do it anyway? Because otherwise would lose to ebay.


So, I guess it's a matter of time. I surely hope so.

(sorry for any bad English)
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Adrian Schmidt
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Je_Pe wrote:
That's why competition is a good thing. You see, you might look at this as a way of losing profit. But it might be an opportunity to make profit. How so? It can be a business differentiation. Imagine if Indie Go Go starts using this rating system. Are they cutting their own profits or are they capturing Kickstarter's by being a better business model? Then, Kickstarter will have to implement it as well if it starts doing some damage.

Amazon would be better of if it didn't sell products from independent vendors (competition). Why does it do it anyway? Because otherwise would lose to ebay.


So, I guess it's a matter of time. I surely hope so.

(sorry for any bad English)


Exactly.
 
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Brad103
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Je_Pe wrote:
Braffe wrote:
I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.


I don't understand why's that. You have companies that usually deliver their projects BEFORE the schedule (Red Raven Games, for example). I think it's bad that delivering after the stated date is becoming something we should "Expect". In fact it should be desaproved. Unless something unexpected and justifiable happens that may be an excuse for delaying, obviously.


The date is always listed as 'Estimated' because of things like that. Problems with production and/or shipping etc... While it's not good practice to deliver late it happens. Many companies overestimate on purpose so they get in early. With big games though (like TWoM), I always assume there will be some delays.

I didn't know they had previous projects still out to be sent to backers. That does raise some concern. But, this also is done often. (DMG has 6 concurrent ones right now). I still have high hopes, but an update this week would make me feel better too.
 
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Brad103
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Braffe wrote:
an update this week would make me feel better too.


Wish Granted!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/awakenrealms/this-war-o...

And it looks like they answered most of our questions...

I think they have spies on these forums...

ninja
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My name is
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Questions answered.
Great.
 
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John Carey
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Braffe wrote:


I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.


If this is correct then I'm in the naive boat with the other 10%.
I only got the first impression that this was going to slip at the last update.

I got a refund from CMON because the Arcadia quest project was clearly "slipping" 6+months and was never (in my assessment) intended to be on the date originally said. I realise the date is estimated but it will be my first and last kick-starter if this game arrives in the summer
 
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Alex Almond
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spiffalski wrote:
Braffe wrote:


I think 90% of the backers were under the impression that getting our game by February was never going to happen. I expect we'll see it sometime over the summer, hopefully.


If this is correct then I'm in the naive boat with the other 10%.
I only got the first impression that this was going to slip at the last update.

I got a refund from CMON because the Arcadia quest project was clearly "slipping" 6+months and was never (in my assessment) intended to be on the date originally said. I realise the date is estimated but it will be my first and last kick-starter if this game arrives in the summer


That's up to you but you seem to be under the impression Kickstarter is a pre-order service.

KS is there to crowd fund projects, many of which by their nature aren't fully developed (if it's was fully developed game you don't need to Kickstart it). During development there will sometimes be unexpected problems which will delay projects that is the way things go sometimes.

A 2 to 4 month delay is not unexpected nor unreasonable.
 
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John Carey
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My impression of KS is that the board game maker sells a pitch for me to invest in. So if the pitch is June delivery with delays only due to unforseen circumstances then that's what I am investing in.

If however the plan is to pitch June but have an internal date of January then that is not for me.

I'm just saying there has to be a good reason for the delay - that's all.
 
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Adrian Schmidt
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spiffalski wrote:
My impression of KS is that the board game maker sells a pitch for me to invest in. So if the pitch is June delivery with delays only due to unforseen circumstances then that's what I am investing in.

If however the plan is to pitch June but have an internal date of January then that is not for me.

I'm just saying there has to be a good reason for the delay - that's all.


I completely agree. And I don't really think that blatant lying about the expected delivery date is very common. But there seem to be some differences in how optimistic different companies are in their estimates.

Some seem to put an enormous amount of pride in not delivering late, and will put up an expected delivery date where they have added months of buffer for delays in every step, and are extremely up front with updates as soon as they see something on the horizon that could potentially delay the project in any way.

Others, more commonly it would seem, give a very optimistic delivery date, that is calculated with no delays whatsoever, and sometimes including plain guesswork, as they sometimes haven't even decided on a manufacturer. This can then be somewhat mitigated or exacerbated by the amount of communication delivered, but people who give "happy" estimates to begin with aren't typically the people who like to communicate bad news.

The problem is that without previous experience with the creator in question, whether first hand or not, it's pretty much impossible to know who is who beforehand.

And I honestly don't know where Awaken Realms fall either, yet. They do seem optimistic, but I also haven't seen any evidence that they are actually late yet. It's all just guesswork, and with them only telling us they're on schedule, and not actually showing anyone that schedule, there's nothing much but speculation left for us.

And if Awaken Realms think we speculate very negatively, that's because speculation will always tend to turn negative. When people don't know, on average, they tend to assume it's bad, simply because that will mean less of a disappointment in the end.
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J Mathews
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Darkmancer wrote:
That's up to you but you seem to be under the impression Kickstarter is a pre-order service.

KS is there to crowd fund projects, many of which by their nature aren't fully developed (if it's was fully developed game you don't need to Kickstart it). During development there will sometimes be unexpected problems which will delay projects that is the way things go sometimes.

A 2 to 4 month delay is not unexpected nor unreasonable.

It may not technically be a pre-order service, but that is how it is being used by both customers and companies, only without the customer protections. It's one reason why I don't back KS games (and have done GMT's P500 in the past). If an established company wants me to front their development costs for the game and take on all the risks, I'd better be getting a better return than a game with a few exclusives. I price risk a bit higher than that.
 
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EventHorizon wrote:
Darkmancer wrote:
That's up to you but you seem to be under the impression Kickstarter is a pre-order service.

KS is there to crowd fund projects, many of which by their nature aren't fully developed (if it's was fully developed game you don't need to Kickstart it). During development there will sometimes be unexpected problems which will delay projects that is the way things go sometimes.

A 2 to 4 month delay is not unexpected nor unreasonable.

It may not technically be a pre-order service, but that is how it is being used by both customers and companies, only without the customer protections. It's one reason why I don't back KS games (and have done GMT's P500 in the past). If an established company wants me to front their development costs for the game and take on all the risks, I'd better be getting a better return than a game with a few exclusives. I price risk a bit higher than that.


The "few exclusives" part is where it becomes subjective.
When you invest 100$ and end up having the equivalent of a 400$ worth of content, it's as profitable as it gets.
It's not always the case but it almost is a constant when you deal with miniature games having a large audience.
And it certainly is not only about the exclusives.
Even the non exclusives stretch goals are a hell of a deal most of the time.
You could almost make a living out of it if you select wisely your projects and if you eBay your pledges later.
That's how profitable it can be.
 
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