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Manalath» Forums » General

Subject: What am I doing wrong? rss

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Alison Mandible
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I've only played this a few times, but I think I must have a rule wrong. When I play, the first player gets a group of 3 on their third turn, and then the second player has forced moves for the rest of the game-- the first player plays a solo stone one space away from her 3, threatening to connect them for the win, so the second player has to turn that solo stone into a pair to block. Then the first player plays another group of 1, and eventually two of the pairs are adjacent and the game ends.

I am sure this game would not be considered worthwhile if it always played out the way I'm seeing. So either my partner and I are missing a way to break that strategy, or we are playing by the wrong rules.

Can anyone tell what I'm missing from this description? I'll post ASCII art boards if the above isn't clear.
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Russ Williams
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Maybe the example game at https://spielstein.com/games/manalath/rules will help? But I don't know; I only played a few times and it's been too long, so the game is not fresh in mind. :/ I should play it again!
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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Let's play so I can figure out what happens. Ok?

o: white
x: black



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You are 'o' and open.
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Dieter Stein
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grasa_total wrote:
... and eventually two of the pairs are adjacent and the game ends.

Mmh. I'm curious. There might still be defense moves available. Here's one example:


Black to move. Black playing a white piece on A will lose, as White can play white on the space left below B and win. Black playing a white piece on B however seems to be safe. White might continue to force Black, but they may run out of space.
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Alison Mandible
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nestorgames wrote:
Let's play so I can figure out what happens. Ok?


Sounds good!

o: white
x: black



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. . . o . . . .
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



. . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . o . . . .
. . . . x . . . .
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. . . . .
 
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Alison Mandible
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spielstein wrote:

Black to move. Black playing a white piece on A will lose, as White can play white on the space left below B and win. Black playing a white piece on B however seems to be safe. White might continue to force Black, but it may run out of space and/or pieces.


Hm, I see how what I've been calling "forced moves" are actually often a choice between 2 or more defensive moves; I wouldn't be surprised if I've been underestimating how much those choices matter. Still, curious to see how this game with Nestor plays out.
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Alison Mandible
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o: white
x: black



. . . . .
. . . . . .
. . o . . . .
. . . o . . . .
. . . . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



. . . . .
. . . . . .
. . o x . . .
. . . o . . . .
. . . . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Alison Mandible
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o: white
x: black



. . . . .
. . . . . .
. . o x . . .
. . o o . . . .
. . . . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



. . . . .
. . . . . .
. . o x . . .
. . o o . . . .
. . x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Alison Mandible
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o: white
x: black



. . . . .
. . . . . .
o . o x . . .
. . o o . . . .
. . x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .


(BTW, this has been very illuminating already; thank you for suggesting it.)
 
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



. . . . .
. . . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. . x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .


Glad to help
 
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Alison Mandible
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
. . . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. . x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
. x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. . x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Alison Mandible
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
. x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Alison Mandible
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o o . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Alison Mandible
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o o . . . . .
. o . . . .
. . . . .
 
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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o: white
x: black



o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o x o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o o . . . . .
. o . . . .
. . . . .
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Alison Mandible
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I think I have no response. Well played.

It seems like perhaps the answer to my original question is "you have the rules right, but are making very bad assumptions about how Black should play the first few moves".

Thank you (and russ and Dieter as well).
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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grasa_total wrote:
I think I have no response. Well played.

It seems like perhaps the answer to my original question is "you have the rules right, but are making very bad assumptions about how Black should play the first few moves".

Thank you (and russ and Dieter as well).


A good game was a better answer. Thanks for playing!
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Joseph DiMuro
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grasa_total wrote:


o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .


I think x could've won right here...


o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
o o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .
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Néstor Romeral Andrés
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TrojH wrote:
grasa_total wrote:


o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
. o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .


I think x could've won right here...


o . . . .
x x . . . .
o . o x . . .
o . o o . . . .
o o x . x . . . .
. . . . . . . .
o . . . . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . .


Well spotted!
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