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SeaFall» Forums » Rules

Subject: Raiding (early game spoilers) rss

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Aaron Hayden
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Sorry if this has been asked, but I did search and read the FAQ and just didn't see this specific topic.
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My question is about damage applied when attacking another ship. Assume for the sake of the question we established the initial attacker dice pool correctly at 10. The defender's hold (garrison) is 3, and his raid (defense) is also 3. He had his support ship too, meaning I (the attacker) rolled 6 dice (10-3-1) and had to achieve three successes. I rolled 4. I don't have the rules here because the game is owned by my friend, but the damage rule in this particular case reads something along the lines of, "Apply damage for each success." That seems pretty unambiguous, but is it really accurate that I roll 4 successes and therefore apply 4 damage? You don't subtract his defense value or something? Again, it seems unambiguous, but given a ship is sunk with 3 damage (at least where we are, at prologue + 4 games), sinking someone seems too easy given the penalty.

Thanks in advance for your response.
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David desJardins
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Yes, that's correct. As you say, there's not really a rules question here. Note the enmity cost to the raider is significant, he also must have used a valuable adviser or some other bonus, and he didn't really get anything out of it.
 
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j n
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You've got it mostly right.

The two other things that might have reduce your attacker's dice are the attacker's enmity tokens/stickers on the defender's province, and another -1 die if the defender controlled the region where the battle took place (like defender's home harbor).

You didn't have to get 3 successes per se, but you would have taken 1 damage yourself for each success less than 3 achieved. Attacker may inflict 1 damage or steal 1 item per success rolled as long as they don't sink.

Sinking someone is definitely easy, but do keep in mind that you have to give them 1 enmity per damage dealt/item stolen* (My reading is that you can choose to use fewer successes than you actually rolled if you want to minimize the enmity given). These enmity go straight into their At War box, and thus apply for defense AND counterattacking right away (and become stickers if not returned by game end).

*You only give one enmity if the defender is in a region you control, such as your home harbor.
 
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Aaron Hayden
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Yes, that's correct. As you say, there's not really a rules question here. Note the enmity cost to the raider is significant, he also must have used a valuable adviser or some other bonus, and he didn't really get anything out of it.

Explain what you mean by "he didn't really get anything out of it," please. By the way, you couldn't have known this, but given a relevant milestone that was in play, I, the attacker in this situation, did get something really good out of it, actually. But absent that, I'd still get 1 glory for the raid at least, right?
 
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David desJardins
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AaronHayden wrote:
But absent that, I'd still get 1 glory for the raid at least, right?


Sure. But that's very little. You could have done other things with your turn that would have easily gotten you 1 glory, plus other benefits.

Of course, if there's a milestone or other incentive for attacking another player then that changes the calculations (for both you and for them).
 
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Vince Alvarez
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AaronHayden wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked, but I did search and read the FAQ and just didn't see this specific topic.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
My question is about damage applied when attacking another ship. Assume for the sake of the question we established the initial attacker dice pool correctly at 10. The defender's hold (garrison) is 3, and his raid (defense) is also 3. He had his support ship too, meaning I (the attacker) rolled 6 dice (10-3-1) and had to achieve three successes. I rolled 4. I don't have the rules here because the game is owned by my friend, but the damage rule in this particular case reads something along the lines of, "Apply damage for each success." That seems pretty unambiguous, but is it really accurate that I roll 4 successes and therefore apply 4 damage? You don't subtract his defense value or something? Again, it seems unambiguous, but given a ship is sunk with 3 damage (at least where we are, at prologue + 4 games), sinking someone seems too easy given the penalty.

Thanks in advance for your response.


Quick clarification:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The hold value is the defense and the raid or sail value is the garrison (defenders choice). It kind of makes sense thematically: the hold/size is how many hits you need and how many guns/how fast the ship is is how difficult the other ship makes your attempt.
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Becq Starforged
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Reinforcing that Vince is correct; you had the values reversed. Though in the example you gave, there wouldn't have been a difference.

One additional thing to keep in mind is that if the ship has upgrades, it can exhaust them in place of taking a damage card. So a ship with two upgrades can survive four damage, and only sinks on the fifth damage.

Also: (box 1 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
In your example, you rolled 4 successes. You can split these between damage and theft as you wish. So if your target had goods, you could have stolen a good in addition to inflicting 3 damage (therefore sinking his ship, assuming no upgrades). Or you could steal all of his goods (from the target ship) and apply leftover successes as damage. It's possible that the worst case scenario (for the defender) is to do just enough damage to cripple his ship (two damage cards), which would force him to sail for repairs.

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steve w
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does exhausting upgrades for damage apply anytime or just raids?
 
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Becq Starforged
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Any time. It's a general rule for damage.
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Aaron Hayden
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Thanks for all the replies, and thanks for the reminder about using upgrades to soak up damage. Good to remember going forward.
 
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Darrell Goodridge
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
We've recently added the Curse damage to the deck. When applying damage from a raid, do you have to assign all of it before the damage is drawn? For example, in general a ship with no upgrades takes 3 damage to sink. If I roll 6 successes, I may not want to assign all 6 for enmity reasons, but if they then draw a couple of Curse cards, they'll live through the normal 3...Or would I have to "foolproof" it and assign all 6 damage to guarantee the sinking?
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David desJardins
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
We've recently added the Curse damage to the deck. When applying damage from a raid, do you have to assign all of it before the damage is drawn? For example, in general a ship with no upgrades takes 3 damage to sink. If I roll 6 successes, I may not want to assign all 6 for enmity reasons, but if they then draw a couple of Curse cards, they'll live through the normal 3...Or would I have to "foolproof" it and assign all 6 damage to guarantee the sinking?


Spoiler (click to reveal)
You mean if you're raiding an enemy ship? I think you can apply successes one at a time, and for each one see how it's resolved (note the owner could also apply it to upgrades) before apply more, plundering goods, etc. If you sink the ship, of course then it's too late to plunder the hold.
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