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Subject: Help with deciding whether to back KS game 'The Edge'... rss

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Larysa J
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Hi everyone!

I'm relatively new to the forum side of BGG, but I'm hoping you can give me some advice and information.

I back some games on KS, and love the idea of helping new developers and getting awesome games that simply won't be available here in Australia (our game availability is pretty crappy)...

I share a house with my daughter, and my son's going to move back in with us shortly. The three of us love gaming, we play often (usually about 3/4 of the nights my son stays over). We're looking for some new games to play. Note - my kids are 21 and 23yo

Our favourite games are Catan (Cities and knights, and seafarers), Ticket to Ride, carcassone, Risk, Game of Thrones (the boardgame, not card game), Rummikub, and quite a number of smaller and more unusual games. We are all three also MTG players. My son also plays RPGs regularly and likes playing Arhkam Horror (which I play with him, but my daughter hates, not because of the genre, she likes horror - just that the game is so incredibly convoluted that both she and I sit and have my son tell us what to do. I admit, more play would make it more understandable, will have to get to that... ).

We are considering backing The Edge: Dawnfall on Kickstarter (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/207729/edge-dawnfall).

None of us have ever played any miniature wargaming type games, but we would like to get into something with a campaign that we can play over an extended time.

Cost is an issue, I am on a disability pension and both kids are studying (well, OK, I'm at Uni too, but that doesn't affect my income). Getting the Edge game will probably mean that I won't be backing very much else at all anytime soon.

We have been considering backing the game at the War Chest level (all six factions) so that we have a level of replayability and, well, more fun! I have never painted miniatures, but I admit, learning to paint them is high on my list of 'yay' factor for this game.

There are a few questions I have, the main ones are: Can this game be properly played with THREE players. I've seen it touted as a '1-4 player game', but every time gameplay is mentioned it's either 1:1, 2:2, or 1:1:1:1, but I've never seen anyone mention specifically three player.

Secondly, I would like to know what the TERRAIN expansion does? We weren't considering the expansion when they were ~60 a faction, but now that the developer has brought out the Cardboard Standee version at ~20 for all six factions, we would consider it if we could figure out what it does. I assume it adds a level of terrain variation, but what's with the big portal looking thing?

I would like to know whether this game would be recommended for us (feel free to ask any questions for clarification you need to)? If not, what other game might fit our bill (doesn't matter if it's not available in Aus, so long as it's available in USA or UK I can get it shipped here).

My daughter has wanted Betrayal at the house on the hill for some time, and we also have Dominion, Pandemic and more Catan expansions on our 'want' list. Additionally, we are shortly moving interstate and will be close to my pseudo-grandchildren (my goddaughter's children), who are all under 7yo, so I was hoping to get a handful of kid-games (we have a couple, but I wanted to get some more), and backing this game will likely kill any new purchases for some time, so final question... Based on the info here, would you back this one game, or get 5-10 cheaper games? (Target USA have an amazing buy-two-get-one-free thing going I could potentially take advantage of).

Finally - to the Mods - I've posted a request for advice once, but in the incorrect format. If this one's wrong, please don't delete it, let me know what's wrong and I'll alter it. I got some good advice that I needed to ask in this forum and not link to the KS, but rather to the BGG page. I hope I've done it correctly this time!!!

Thanks to everyone for your help,

L... meeple

Note: Edited to provide more info into why my daughter dislikes AH.
 
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Jessica Gustafsson
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I would advice against putting all of your gaming budget towards a game which hasn't really proven itself yet. It's also a new genre for you and it would be a pity if you realize that you don't really like wargaming with miniatures. Unfortunately I don't know enough about that game in particular to answer your questions about it.

If you are not against playing co-ops you might want to check Gloomhaven out. It finished its Kickstarter campaign but I believe you can pre-order it through pledgemanager. It is, of course, also "unproven" but at least its less expensive. It features an extensive campaign and it has some miniatures so you can give painting those a whirl to see if you like it. That would leave you with some extra money to spend on cheaper games at Target USA.

Good luck with your search!
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Thanee
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If you want to try something in this direction, there are many more choices available. It does not seem like the best idea to throw a huge amount of money at a game, if you do not even know, whether you and your kids will like the genre. Well, you like the Game of Thrones board game, so it is not completely out of the world, but still.

For example, Cry Havoc from the same designer is much cheaper and a complete game (The Edge seems more like a starting point).

Another Kickstarter, that is running at the moment, will offer quite a bit of extra content for the pledge. It is also a miniature skirmish game. Mythic Battles: Pantheon.

Bye
Thanee
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If you read the Edge forums, BGG'ers have mentioned how expensive this game is. The Edge says it's either one-versus-one or two-versus-two or "free for all" (I'll believe a wargame does that when I read the reviews) so I would pass on it as a three-player game. You should ask about three-player for Mythic Battles. I think a few scenarios can be played three-player, but, since it's a miniatures wargame, it's often played one-versus-one or two-versus-two. You might want to ask on Dakka Dakka or The Miniatures Page for suggestions for three-player wargames that aren't expensive.

I'd say skip the miniatures for now. Betrayal has a new Widows Walk expansion that's under $20. Dominion has multiple expansions, including two $10 updates for their first edition base sets.

Unless anyone else in your family wants to paint, you should skip painting as well. Expect to drop $100+ on the hobby, not including buying more miniatures. Otherwise, I recommend the Reaper Learn to Paint kits, the second one coming in a few weeks. FRPGames will have them in stock at discount.
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Larysa J
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Thanks everyone...

It's really starting to look as though this isn't going to be the game I thought it would.

I'm particularly NOT looking for a co-op game, we have a couple of those and Pandemic is high on our list of 'to get' games, so I think if we're playing co-op we'd rather play a short game than throw ourselves into a long co-operative campaign. This also throws Mice & Mystics out of the pot... (Had watched it on TableTop and thought it was cool, except for the co-op nature. Jessica, this would also cut Gloomhaven out, but I may have a look at it anyway, just to make sure, as I haven't seen it on KS yet (which is odd, I try to read the upload of EVERY new boardgame on there...)

Sam & Max - thanks for those two site names, I'd never heard of them and will now go and wander around to see what I can find.

Thanee - thanks for those two recommendations, I'll go have a look at them, too. I'm the one who wants to learn to paint minis. I do a bit of colouring and I love it. I'm a crap artist (even my stick-figures require explanation) but I colour really well (I think, anyway!! lol). I know it'll be expensive, but, I'm in no hurry, I have the next semester off uni, so I can do a bit of reading and try it out. I will have a look at the Reaper kit you suggested.

I have also been reading about Heroscape. As I'm really new to this mini world I hadn't heard of it before.

Thanks again, everyone. Any further comments are welcome!!
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Larysa wrote:
we'd rather play a short game than throw ourselves into a long co-operative campaign. This also throws Mice & Mystics out of the pot...

I'm the one who wants to learn to paint minis.

Are you looking fully 3-way competitive minis game or would a 1-vs-2 game interest you?

(From experience I can tell you that you become a better painter by painting and stealing tips and tricks from other people.)
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Larysa wrote:
None of us have ever played any miniature wargaming type games


The answer to me then is 100% do NOT get this game.

First try some similar games out.

You might simply despise tactical combat games and won't know until you try. It's not worth doing an 'investment' style game if you don't know if you even like the genre.

KS is ALWAYS a risk, and very often the games are massively disappointing due to QA issues or it just isn't the game that everyone thought was being presented.

Very often, the games become available for EXTREME discount after KS release. Don't get pulled in unless you are very, very sure.

Best example: Sedition Wars. People went in for hundreds, like this game. Big names behind it. Came out - rules pretty much unplayable. Missing features, errors, and badly written. You want Sedition Wars now? You can get it for $20.

You don't want that to happen in a genre you aren't even sure of.
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Peter Bowie
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Unless you're an avid miniatures fan, or really love tactical combat games, I don't think The Edge is the game for you. Like others have said, it's a bit of a risk, especially if you don't know if you'll like the game type.

Instead, I'd recommend Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shadows of the Past. It's hitting retail shortly. It plays quickly, it's got asymmetrical combat, and several campaigns. It's a 1 vs all game, meaning 1 player plays the bad guys, whilst the others take role of the good guys. 3 seems to be a sweet spot. It also happens to be designed by Kevin Wilson, designer of Arkham Horror (though it's a much, much more family-friendly game).

Alternatively, The Others: 7 Sins is a similar style. No campaigns, and a longer game. It's a horror-themed game with lots of demons and stuff, so it may be down your ally. It's also From Eric Lang, designer of Blood Rage and Chaos in the Old World.

Seeing as both were Kickstarter games, they come with a ton of content in the box, and have lots of expansions available, should you love the game (just don't go crazy! No point getting expansions for something unless you love it).
 
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Larysa J
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a1bert wrote:

Are you looking fully 3-way competitive minis game or would a 1-vs-2 game interest you?


I think I'd prefer 3-way competitive, but 1:2 would definitely be considered. Actually 1:2 would be good from the 'no favourites' point of view, which I often have a LOT of issues with playing Catan. Both my kids are really good players and it often happens that they're both one move off finishing and need to trade or something. One will ask for a trade and I'll say 'OK', then the other becries 'But wait, if you do that s/he will WIN, and I'm going to build xyz on my turn which will let ME win'. This puts me literally in the position where I have to choose which kid wins. It's a shit of a spot, I can tell you!!! By trading I assist one to win, by not trading I assist the other in winning... I usually end up rolling a dice, one kid is odd, one is even and whichever rolls gets it. Man, it drives me nuts. This would be eliminated in a 1:2 scenario... But it's definitely not a 'no' to three-player competitive. I have lots of dice

a1bert wrote:
(From experience I can tell you that you become a better painter by painting and stealing tips and tricks from other people.)


Absolutely!!! There's NO need to make the mistakes others have made! I am grateful to them for blogging or youtubing their how-tos so I can learn from them!!!
 
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Larysa J
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Geosphere wrote:

The answer to me then is 100% do NOT get this game.

First try some similar games out.


Thanks, I'm really leaning this way now... I think we'll have to see whether any of the MTG guys we play with have minis and might be up for bringing them over to play a game in exchange for a nice roast dinner..
 
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Larysa J
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Peter Bowie...

Thanks heaps for your advice. The TMNT game sounds like what we're looking for - if I could stand looking at TMNT for a night (not sure about that). I have to admit, being a teenager in the '80's means I remember the first iteration of TMNT and they were AWFUL. lol

I will have a look at The Others. The 'no campaign' may delete it from consideration at this stage. But I will throw it into the pot, thanks.

I'll have a look at the KS market to see whether we can get either second-hand if that's how we go (I'll have to discuss it all with both kids).
 
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Bryan
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If you guys are into magic the gathering, I'd go for arena of the planeswalkers. It's a pretty cheap game, it's fun, and it will get you into the miniatures skirmish type games to see if you even like it.
 
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Matt Brown
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The games you mentioned you liked are on the lighter side. Save coin and grab Nexus Ops.
 
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Larysa wrote:
We're looking for some new games to play....
If you are looking for a new game to play, don't back a KS anything.

Best to repost with some specifics about a theme/weight/price, etc. you are interested in and ask for currently available game recs.

KS games can become available far in the future to never. If it is a game that interests you when it is actually a product, you'll be able to buy it then.

Your kids are going to be a lot older by the time whatever KS game you back actually appears, assuming it does at all.

(And no, I'm not bitter about KS; just giving a realistic reply IMO.)
 
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Larysa J
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adm1 wrote:

Your kids are going to be a lot older by the time whatever KS game you back actually appears, assuming it does at all.


Thanks for that. I understand KS takes a while... This game, even supposing it arrives on time will be next August. I'm not too worried about that, my kids are (almost) 21 and 23, so 10 months won't make much difference. If they were 11 and 13 it would be a different thing. At least I think so...

I will repost with recommendation questions, thanks.
 
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Jason Brown
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If you're looking for a non-coop miniatures game, definitely check out Arcadia Quest. Start with just the base game and, if you like it, there's oodles of expansion content available. It'S a terrific, proven game and a great place to branch out into the adventure genre.
 
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David B
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I would not get the Edge unless it came with the Bono expansion.
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Andy
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As a general rule, if it's on KickStarter, skip it.
 
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Peter Bowie
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Larysa wrote:
Thanks heaps for your advice. The TMNT game sounds like what we're looking for - if I could stand looking at TMNT for a night (not sure about that). I have to admit, being a teenager in the '80's means I remember the first iteration of TMNT and they were AWFUL. lol


I agree, and I liked TMNT as a child! It is based on the IDW comics though, which take themselves way more seriously, and are geared towards the 18-30 age bracket. (Though I know perceptions can die hard!)

Quote:
I'll have a look at the KS market to see whether we can get either second-hand if that's how we go (I'll have to discuss it all with both kids).


They're both getting retail releases (The Others is in stores already, in fact), so no need to chase down the KS stuff.

As Matt said, if you don't mind the lack of campaign play, Nexus Ops is a well-designed miniature skirmish game.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Larysa wrote:
I think I'd prefer 3-way competitive, but 1:2 would definitely be considered. Actually 1:2 would be good from the 'no favourites' point of view

Then you may want to take a look at Imperial Assault. It is a board game with miniatures / grid-based tactical skirmish game.

The campaign mode of Imperial Assault is played by one imperial player against 2-4 rebel heroes (4 heroes recommended, whatever number of rebel players). Each mission takes 1-3 hours. The core campaign is 11 to 14 missions (normally 11 or 12), and the core box contains 30+ missions, so you get 2-3 campaigns easily from the core box. Even if you play some missions again, and thus the rebels know something about them, they'll still play differently due to different heroes, skills, items, strategy, and hidden options for the imperial player.

In addition you will get a 2-player skirmish play mode in the box. The skirmish missions also have other objectives than defeating the figures of the opponent.

The core box has good value, especially if you see it below MSRP. There's the danger of wanting more and more though. (I have everything, and have painted everything. I can afford it though.)

So, check it out, even if it doesn't end up at your table.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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pfctsqr wrote:
I would not get the Edge unless it came with the Bono expansion.


I heard the Bass game was enough.
 
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