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Subject: Forbidden Fortress Kickstarter Valuation Spreadsheet rss

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Joe Price
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I recorded all of the pledges and stretch goals into a spreadsheet, including which pledge the stretch goal belongs to and what it may cost, the estimated retail value and a broad estimate of a high-end US discounter value at 30% off. EDIT: The discount column also includes the perfect buy 2 get 1 free sale from FFP for card packs by valuing them at $7 each. Good luck, but if we're talking best price, there it is.

I did take a guess at some retail values. I did not separate out the value of the alt gender models or card packs because you ARE getting them if you pledge, regardless of whether you consider them worthwhile.

The second sheet contains the summation of the various values.

NO SHIPPING is included in the calculations.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x7uxmG0j5D1LQ59W1gLp...

If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know in this thread.

EDIT:
Based upon someone's excellent point that all heroes have a value, added value to KSE heroes of $17 based upon the cost to buy them "retail" if they were available.
Corrected FFP company reference. Ack!
Corrected Red Ronin values.
Updated Spider Queen value and removed note.
Added CAD, EUR and GBP to Summary Sheet for S&Gs. These are just a direct currency conversion with no idea of what "Discount" may mean - it's still a US Online Retailer discount of 30%.
Added KS MSRP discount percent. (1-Pledge/MSRP)
Added cost for Sumo to purchase Temple expansion.
Added Bone Eaters and updated for 725K stretch goal.
Updated to the 800K stretch goal. New OtherWorld!
Added new stretch goals and updates summary for 850K goal.
Updated to the 900K stretch goal.
Added new stretch goals filling in up to the 1M goal.
Updated Ally Pack cost and added notes about goals that were combined into Deluxe Enemy Packs (DEP).
Updated to the 950K stretch goal and added the first set of post 1M goals.
Updated to the 1M stretch goal (yay dragon!) and added the next couple of post 1M goals.
Updated to the 1.05M stretch goal.
Updated to the 1.1M stretch goal. That's it folks! Well, unless something happens in the pledge manager.
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Well done, good sir!
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The Dragon's MSRP was mentioned to be $45.
Quote:
I haven't done the math for where we are currently at, but in looking at the unlocked stretch goals so far, Sumo is worth well over $200 retail at the moment. That Huge XXL Dragon is a $45 retail value as well if/when it unlocks. Sumo is not a bad deal.

Nov 6 2016 on Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress
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Joe Price
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Thanks, updated.
 
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batanen wrote:
The Dragon's MSRP was mentioned to be $45.
Quote:
I haven't done the math for where we are currently at, but in looking at the unlocked stretch goals so far, Sumo is worth well over $200 retail at the moment. That Huge XXL Dragon is a $45 retail value as well if/when it unlocks. Sumo is not a bad deal.

Nov 6 2016 on Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress


Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?
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yury1975 wrote:
batanen wrote:
The Dragon's MSRP was mentioned to be $45.
Quote:
I haven't done the math for where we are currently at, but in looking at the unlocked stretch goals so far, Sumo is worth well over $200 retail at the moment. That Huge XXL Dragon is a $45 retail value as well if/when it unlocks. Sumo is not a bad deal.

Nov 6 2016 on Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress


Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?

Have you looked at the prices Games Workshop asks for their stuff?
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Joe Price
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Corran Horn wrote:
yury1975 wrote:
batanen wrote:
The Dragon's MSRP was mentioned to be $45.
Quote:
I haven't done the math for where we are currently at, but in looking at the unlocked stretch goals so far, Sumo is worth well over $200 retail at the moment. That Huge XXL Dragon is a $45 retail value as well if/when it unlocks. Sumo is not a bad deal.

Nov 6 2016 on Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress


Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?

Have you looked at the prices Games Workshop asks for their stuff?


DEFINITELY off topic. arrrh
 
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Taking that GW is the most famous company that uses HIPS plastic (same as SOB) and the only one many people will know they seem to be the only company you can compare SOB prices to
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yury1975 wrote:
batanen wrote:
The Dragon's MSRP was mentioned to be $45.
Quote:
I haven't done the math for where we are currently at, but in looking at the unlocked stretch goals so far, Sumo is worth well over $200 retail at the moment. That Huge XXL Dragon is a $45 retail value as well if/when it unlocks. Sumo is not a bad deal.

Nov 6 2016 on Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress


Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?


Yes, but that's what they are selling them for (and why you back the KS so you don't have to pay that much!)

They do typically include missions and significant number of card packs. I don't know about the Dragon King, but the Ninja Pack they just added will have different clans with entirely different cards. So the variety will be there.

I recently assembled Bel'ial which isn't released to retail yet. It's pretty dang impressive. I expect the Dragon King to be similar.
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I would put the card packs as worth $7 since you can often get them for buy 2 get 1 free from the FFP store.
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Joe Price
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Wetworks wrote:
I would put the card packs as worth $7 since you can often get them for buy 2 get 1 free from the FFP store.


Valid point. It doesn't always work out perfectly though - there are presently five card packs, for example. But I'll change the "discount" column to $7 with a note about the occasional FFP sale.
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yury1975 wrote:
Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?


Well, what about taking Cthulhu Wars for comparison?

A faction expansion there was at about 50$. For that you'd get roughly 15 to 20 miniatures, of which one tends to be huge (up to 20cm high), and then you get the rules and tokens and so on.
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Joe Price
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Since I'm getting tired of people complaining that Sumo doesn't give all the stretch goals Shogun does and how far apart the Sumo allowed goals are, I've added a new tab that shows everything Sumo does NOT get.

The summary: The Temple Expansion, the Shogun KS class and its alt gender model, the alt gender models from the Temple Expansion and what appears to be a presumed ally pack. The presumed ally pack is the only game play component in the entire list that a variation in stretch goal allocation as the Temple expansion is specific to the Shogun pledge level. Everything else is included in Sumo or available as an add-on.
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Joe Price
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Based upon someone's excellent point that all heroes have a value, added value to KSE heroes of $17 based upon the cost to buy them "retail" if they were available.
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rpvt wrote:
I recorded all of the pledges and stretch goals into a spreadsheet, including which pledge the stretch goal belongs to and what it may cost, the estimated retail value and a broad estimate of a high-end US discounter value at 30% off. EDIT: The discount column also includes the perfect buy 2 get 1 free sale from FFP for card packs by valuing them at $7 each. Good luck, but if we're talking best price, there it is.

I did take a guess at some retail values. I did not separate out the value of the alt gender models or card packs because you ARE getting them if you pledge, regardless of whether you consider them worthwhile.

The second sheet contains the summation of the various values.

NO SHIPPING is included in the calculations.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x7uxmG0j5D1LQ59W1gLp...

If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know in this thread.

EDIT:
Based upon someone's excellent point that all heroes have a value, added value to KSE heroes of $17 based upon the cost to buy them "retail" if they were available.


please chance FFG to FFP in the doc. thanks
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also

Jorogumo Spider Queen is 30usd not 40
Red Ronin is 15usd
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Joe Price
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Thanks for catching those corrections! Especially the G v P bit. Not matter how much I double check they just don't stick in my head.
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yury1975 wrote:
Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?


Not really, at least in my opinion and based on what we've seem. If nothing else, because that's the MSRP, which means CSI will probably be carrying it for around $32, which is the add on price if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it will have missions, cards, etc.

Assuming it's on par with Belia'al, who is gigantic, I don't think it's an unreasonable amount, and only like $10 higher in MSRPP than the price of the XXL figure currently on CSI (Sand Kraken).
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Forar wrote:
yury1975 wrote:
Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?


Not really, at least in my opinion and based on what we've seem. If nothing else, because that's the MSRP, which means CSI will probably be carrying it for around $32, which is the add on price if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it will have missions, cards, etc.

Assuming it's on par with Belia'al, who is gigantic, I don't think it's an unreasonable amount, and only like $10 higher in MSRPP than the price of the XXL figure currently on CSI (Sand Kraken).


If I am not mistaken, the KD:M expansions are very much like SoB large enemy expansions and cost 75-100USD each. I don't own KD:M (yet!), but from what I've seen, the KD:M minis look to be better produced and have more detailed sculpts, but not 2-3x better.
 
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Friedmutant wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the KD:M expansions are very much like SoB large enemy expansions and cost 75-100USD each. I don't own KD:M (yet!), but from what I've seen, the KD:M minis look to be better produced and have more detailed sculpts, but not 2-3x better.


AFAIK, the the KD:M minis are like Porsche's or other exotic cards, while the SoB minis (at least the initial ones) are more like Toyotas or Hondas.

Porsches look to be better produced and have more refined designs, but are they really worth 2-3 times the price of a Toyota?


(I'm not a car guy, so the Porsche / Toyota comparison isn't really based on much... but you all know what I'm going for here!)
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Friedmutant wrote:
Forar wrote:
yury1975 wrote:
Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?


Not really, at least in my opinion and based on what we've seem. If nothing else, because that's the MSRP, which means CSI will probably be carrying it for around $32, which is the add on price if I'm not mistaken. Plus, it will have missions, cards, etc.

Assuming it's on par with Belia'al, who is gigantic, I don't think it's an unreasonable amount, and only like $10 higher in MSRPP than the price of the XXL figure currently on CSI (Sand Kraken).


If I am not mistaken, the KD:M expansions are very much like SoB large enemy expansions and cost 75-100USD each. I don't own KD:M (yet!), but from what I've seen, the KD:M minis look to be better produced and have more detailed sculpts, but not 2-3x better.

At some point the linear curve of cost vs. quality breaks down. To get that last, say, 10% of quality you pay increasingly more for diminishing returns. That's just how it is regardless of the product. It's up to each of us to decide our comfort zone in terms of cost vs. quality.
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Corran Horn wrote:
yury1975 wrote:
batanen wrote:
The Dragon's MSRP was mentioned to be $45.
Quote:
I haven't done the math for where we are currently at, but in looking at the unlocked stretch goals so far, Sumo is worth well over $200 retail at the moment. That Huge XXL Dragon is a $45 retail value as well if/when it unlocks. Sumo is not a bad deal.

Nov 6 2016 on Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress
Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?
Have you looked at the prices Games Workshop asks for their stuff?
I grow weary of people always throwing the most expensive minis on earth into the conversation every time someone questions the cost of a Kickstarter miniature. The whole point of KS minis are quantity over quality. That's what gets the trained seals to bark & dance. That's what boardgamers want.

But GW and FFP aren't comparable.
They never were.
When FFP start making minis that look this intricate, you let me know:



(I'm not saying you have to love GW, I'm just saying any comparisons between FFP's shabby shovelware miniatures and GW's stuff is a pretty amusing joke.)
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Magma Fiends unlocked for Sumo and Shogun!
 
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Joe Price
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fightcitymayor wrote:
Corran Horn wrote:
yury1975 wrote:
batanen wrote:
The Dragon's MSRP was mentioned to be $45.
Quote:
I haven't done the math for where we are currently at, but in looking at the unlocked stretch goals so far, Sumo is worth well over $200 retail at the moment. That Huge XXL Dragon is a $45 retail value as well if/when it unlocks. Sumo is not a bad deal.

Nov 6 2016 on Shadows of Brimstone: Forbidden Fortress
Offtopic: isn't $45 for just 1 mini (even a large one) a bit ridiculous price?
Have you looked at the prices Games Workshop asks for their stuff?
I grow weary of people always throwing the most expensive minis on earth into the conversation every time someone questions the cost of a Kickstarter miniature. The whole point of KS minis are quantity over quality. That's what gets the trained seals to bark & dance. That's what boardgamers want.

But GW and FFP aren't comparable.
They never were.
When FFP start making minis that look this intricate, you let me know:

(I'm not saying you have to love GW, I'm just saying any comparisons between FFP's shabby shovelware miniatures and GW's stuff is a pretty amusing joke.)


The entire point of my post is to point out that the entire point of your post is your opinion stated as fact. After all, something like KDM exists - you might not like his style, but go tell Poots his minis are KS "shovelware".

Regardless of quality comparisons, large single miniatures will always be expensive. Just looking at manufacturing alone, the complexity of breaking them down, the number of individual pieces and the number of models required for one model will drive the price up.

FFP is getting better. I like the detail on my Be'lial better than the detail on my Negash. Mine might be from WFB 4th - but geez, talk about expensive for the time! Heh.



Poor picture quality for an otherwise nice miniature. (The last picture is for scale against the Undead Gunslinger model.) Not up to Negash, but I also paid far less. Don't know MSRP, but around $40-45?

EDIT: Stacked the pictures inline to take up less space.
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horfrost3 wrote:
Magma Fiends unlocked for Sumo and Shogun!


Nice! Updated summary section.
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