$35.00
Bradley Will
United States
Hays
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have no experience with KD other than what I have learned poking around here on BGG. I need someone to briefly explain to me whether a game owner can REASONABLY (as opposed to ideally) assemble and paint survivor models so that they have the armor and equipment that match the actual in-game gear.

I'm increasingly coming to understand that the answer to this question is "No."

1. Am I correct in understanding that a character's gear might change significantly between battles?

2. Do gear changes/upgrades happen in unpredictable ways? That is, I suspect that one cannot plan that character X will have armor #1, then armor #2, then armor #3, because a character might make piecemeal changes or skip some upgrade sets. Is this correct?

3. The multi-part armor kits allow players to assemble minis that reflect their characters' equipment (I think). But can these be painted (even at the lame table quality I do) and then disassembled and reassembled as needed?

4. Do characters sometimes (or often) change gear even in the course of one play session?

5. What is the actual (typical) practice of players--particularly (but not limited to) those who paint? My suspicion is that folks might paint up the four starters and then simply use them as markers, not bothering to make sure that the character has the right armor or weapon. But then why have all these options and alternate armor models? I never have cared that my D&D mini matched my character's gear, but somehow I have gotten the impression that KD offers this as a possibility. So to go back to my original question: How does this work in actual practice?

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Wirtz
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
1- yes, everyone's got a collective gear pool. Builds often stay the same from one game to the next, but sometimes you want to shuffle things around to be more effective, or trading up gear makes a cascade of changes.

2. Yes

3- probably very difficult without a lot of magnets or something similar. There are no snap-fit components

4- rarely, but yes, sometimes you get new gear or lose gear on the way to a fight

5- My first campaign was basically just 4 generic characters. Now, I build guys once I know I'm using a style regularly, favorite characters who stuck with a given style, or that fill a gap (ex: if I have no whip model, I make one with a whip). In practice, my group tries to match sex, dominant armor type, and primary weapon type. I've started working on magnetizing a few survivors to flesh out the options and make repeated gear easier to represent, but it works out pretty well. Once you build 20+ survivors, you probably reasonably have plenty of options for clear/easy identification.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Leigh
United Kingdom
Leighton Buzzard
Beds
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1) Yes, to an extent, there is a bit of a tech progression, but generally you'll be changing gear in fits and starts (so first lion gear, then antelope, then pheonix).

Some gear is better for some fights so if I'm going up against the hand i'll focus on shields for all champs if possible.

2) Some rare events/ nemesis rewards give new weapons / armor but they are few and far between. Generally these weapons are "cursed" meaning you'll HAVE to have them in your gear grid, rather than leaving them at home.

3) You would have to magnetise, which is a real fiddle and results in less dynamic poses.

4) Again really rare. The phoenix events can see your items revert to their raw materials and stuff like that but not enough to impact the kits construction.

5) I use the basic 4 survivors. I have magnetised arms/ legs/ heads but even then I am not sure its worth it. I do find that when playing with people they focus on the weapons. So an unarmored man with the right sword will be the one the sword wielder will use, regardless of the armor they're in.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Wirtz
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, more often than not, it's along the lines of "this girl with a long axe and some armor represents a girl with a poleaxe, X armor set, and a shield" because it's obvious at a glance which character's being represented.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phoenix Butthole Hands
United States
Mercer Island
Wa
flag msg tools
mbmb
The verdict I've seen is that magnetizing the minis is brutal and not worth it. Drilling and fitting a magnet for those hands or arms is really tough, and with some of the weapons they weigh too much to bear the weight. Also, the mini's I've seen that have been magnetized (or some people pin the models or use blue tack) don't look as good because the fitting just isn't right.

I'd suggest that you build the survivors to look they way you want. Its an aesthetic choice though, and the trade off is between having the models look great or having them represent their load out. I would have loved to magnetize them but after putting a few together, I think they look a lot better put together in poses.

The other option is to buy the Armor Bundle thats in the shop right now and make a bunch of different combinations that mostly represent the different combinations. But painting that many survivors is... time consuming to say the least. Also, there's some speculation that there will be dynamic poses for some of the armor sets based on the image from the recent announcement. It might be the case that there are some new minis that will look sweet but aren't customizable.

Oh ya, and there are some expansions that come with weapon sprues but no charater models (Slenderman, looking at you). I'll be using some of my extra minis to utilize those weapons. As the other guy said, the weapons are what stand out the most so I'd suggest making models with a good variety of the weapons available for the armor set.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bradley Will
United States
Hays
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks so much for the replies. You all have been very helpful. I hadn't been getting this kind of perspective from the reviews I have seen.

So it sounds like the most reasonable expectation is similar to my D&D mini experience. Just get a model that matches gender and weapon type, and that will do the job just fine. That sounds both manageable and fun for me, so it looks like I'll be backing another KS soon. Yay!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phoenix Butthole Hands
United States
Mercer Island
Wa
flag msg tools
mbmb
BTW, some of the coolest paint jobs I've seen have been mostly monotone, black and white + some accents. That would be much easier to paint than going all out and it really fits the feel of the game pretty well. If you're new or don't feel comfortable with painting everything, they really look a lot better than the dip/wash style you see in other games. The details are really subtle and using something like a dip or shade really takes away from those details.

You can find some examples on BGG. One of the head guys over at Paizo (Pathfinder) actually did his set like that.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ArtSchool
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Professor wrote:
Thanks so much for the replies. You all have been very helpful. I hadn't been getting this kind of perspective from the reviews I have seen.

So it sounds like the most reasonable expectation is similar to my D&D mini experience. Just get a model that matches gender and weapon type, and that will do the job just fine. That sounds both manageable and fun for me, so it looks like I'll be backing another KS soon. Yay!


Exactly. Just try to become familiar with the game and the gear sets (especially weapons) which you and your group favour before assembling new minis beyond the four initial survivors (which are not customisable). You have around 150 gear pieces to be combined in an up to 9-item grid for every survivor, so the number of different sets is almost endless. In my opinion, the main weapon(s) held is/are what normally identify your character better, regardless of other items such as the armor type worn.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessio Massuoli
Italy
Terni
Umbria
flag msg tools
They await the King
badge
The Snarky Sloth
mbmbmbmbmb
and remember that, unlike d&d, your character will survive a couple of years before being dismembered by something that has more appendages than comfortable (and hands! oh God the hands...)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thorsten Schröder
Germany
Bonn
flag msg tools
Loser at the 'Pursuit of Happiness Contest'
mbmbmbmbmb
Just having watched a couple of videos and not played the game myself.
But there seem to be some gear combinations in the game that just make sense (at least in the early game).
Like the white lion armour set with katars. I don't know how many survivors can be built with the sprues you get in the game but I think my aproach would be to try to find out what combinations are most common and then build (and paint) them.
I guess I also would not built everything at once but leave a few unassembled for my fist games and then find out what I want.

There seem to be so many combinations that a bit of proxying can not be avoided though...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stuart Holttum
United Kingdom
Southend on Sea
Essex
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
To give a perspective that I don't think has been covered yet....

KDM is a cooperative game, where all character gear is known to all players, and (in 99% of cases) for any one battle will have been the subject of some (or much!) discussion before venturing into battle. The merits of character A taking the Axe or the Spear will have been considered, and whether it is better for them to have the full armour set of Type A, or bits from A and B plus special item X.

Point being, when the board is set up for the battle, each player will either know exactly what the other players are using, or will be able to find out freely and easily with no detriment to any player involved.

For that reason, the game plays exactly as well with "perfect" miniatures as it does with four coloured tiddlywinks - the gear represented on the model is irrelevant in a way that in a competitive game would be crucial. If my gladiator is fighting yours, then the fact you have a sword when your mini shows a spear, could be utterly crucial. In KDM, WYSIWYG figures are irrelevant.

Which is not to say that they aren't nice! Playing four unarmoured figures to represent four tanks in Phoenix armour and two handed colossal swords would just feel wrong! The key question - and only you can answer this! - is what level of incompatibility you are happy with at the LOOKS level....because for gameplay it is irrelevant.

Its an aesthetic decision entirely - whatever you are happy with visually will be entirely acceptable so far as gameplay goes.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessio Massuoli
Italy
Terni
Umbria
flag msg tools
They await the King
badge
The Snarky Sloth
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
If my gladiator is fighting yours, then the fact you have a sword when your mini shows a spear, could be utterly crucial

My Van Saar Necromunda gang had NONE of their weapons represented on the models, mostly because I'm bad at converting pewter minis and because the old miniature range did not represent the good options for the game. It has never been a problem. You can color bases or number miniatures and you are still fine, even in a competitive setting (MORE in a competitive setting - I'd say that when you are one against each other, everyone is keeping a closer eye at the other's equipment, so these mistakes (almost) NEVER happen).

The same goes with Blood Bowl, or really with any competitive game.

No, the truth here is simply that miniature games do take into account aesthetics in order to give proper immersion, so an accurate miniature is a welcome addition (otherwise, you can use four meeples - or four lego models, it's the same).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Wirtz
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Some people, especially with complex, competitive, time-based games, will have problems with that sort of thing, especially if it's more than occasional or not immediately obvious.

GW games are pretty darn light-weight compared to some of those out there- playing Malifaux where everyone can do ten different things; Warmachine and its super combos; Infinity where you need to be aware of a ton of reactionary capabilities across every inch of movement are all ones where it's easy to really slow down or mess up someone's play if your models aren't obvious.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stuart Holttum
United Kingdom
Southend on Sea
Essex
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
t3clis wrote:
Quote:
If my gladiator is fighting yours, then the fact you have a sword when your mini shows a spear, could be utterly crucial

...You can color bases or number miniatures and you are still fine, even in a competitive setting (MORE in a competitive setting - I'd say that when you are one against each other, everyone is keeping a closer eye at the other's equipment, so these mistakes (almost) NEVER happen)...


Depends on experience, I'd say - I've been "caught out" by non-representative minis in games (to be fair, even after my opponent had said at game start what they were armed with!!), purely because - as Nick says - in the heat of the moment, its easy to forget.

I would also note that some competitive games require that you actively do NOT let your opponent have free access to your roster, because that can prevent surprises and ambushes. An obvious example is Night Goblins in Warhammer - are there fanatics in there? Free access to the opponents roster would remove all the tension, even if (when triggered) the opponent should show that bit of the roster when challenged!

But my point is that in a cooperative game like KDM, there is NO reason why minis should be WYSIWYG other than aesthetic, whereas in competitive games it may SOMETIMES be a factor, to greater or lesser degree.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blaine French

Temple
Texas
msg tools
mbmb
We make models in honor of epic wins and losses. Like our survivor with a zanbato and skull helm that is pointing one hand forward calling the monster out. Or the insane ambidextrous dual axe wielding who murdered someone so we nominated him head of the settlement. We've got some fun Gorm ones too, because why not.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken C
United States
Rockville
MD
flag msg tools
If you have plenty of money, you can just buy multiples of each of the popular armor sets. I've got three copies of the rawhide and unarmored sprues. Sadly, I also have four sets of Lion Knight and Phoneix, but that's beside the point.

My policy, now that I have piles of sprues, is to build a figure between each game session, if someone is likely to not be well represented by what I already have, that more adequately represents what they're likely to have equipped in the next session. Its kind of fun.

The theory is that my armor sprues should outlast the interest in KDM, and also that common builds should be addressed early. So far its worked pretty well, and produced a couple of very unique models.

If you do this, I would advise prioritizing sprues in this order: rawhide, unarmored (for the heads, I'd rather people have hair than helmets), leather, lion (for the weapons), antelope, phoenix, lantern. Lantern almost never gets built, so you can probably do just fine with a single sprue even. Phoenix is similarly rare as it is hard to construct. If you have expansions, Gorm goes high up in that list - fortunately they included Gorm in the recent re-issued armor kits for the painting contest. I really wish they had included more DBK armor, but, that set is really hard to get, so it is probably okay.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.