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Subject: Hunting the Tigress LOS rss

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paul clarke
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Are there any LOS pics for this scenario?...the other have been really useful
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Simon Croquet
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LOS should be easier on this map, should not they?
Only Masts block the LOS with this exception: they do not block LOS on the masts's area itself: these are always in sight of every other areas.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Shoum wrote:
LOS should be easier on this map, should not they?
Only Masts block the LOS with this exception: they do not block LOS on the masts's area itself: these are always in sight of every other areas.


That's been the consensus so far (though in a strict reading of the LOS rules, LOS into the mast spaces themselves is blocked because the LOS dot is inside a solid object).
 
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Paul F
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There are also stairs pictured going up to the deck where Skuthus starts suggesting this might be at a higher elevation than the other areas and only targetable from the areas adjacent to it. I posted this query on the Monolith website under this scenario a couple of weeks ago, but disappointingly it is still 'Awaiting moderation".
 
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Stephan Beal
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multifish wrote:
There are also stairs pictured going up to the deck where Skuthus starts suggesting this might be at a higher elevation than the other areas and only targetable from the areas adjacent to it. I posted this query on the Monolith website under this scenario a couple of weeks ago, but disappointingly it is still 'Awaiting moderation".


The answer to that in other threads of this forum has mostly been "no change in elevation is intended (i.e. is not specified in the scenario), but play it that way if you really feel that you need to." Of course, you'll have to define the conditions for changing elevations yourself, e.g. how much movement it costs and where the borders can be crossed, in such a way that is agreeable to all players.
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Dave Smith
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multifish wrote:
There are also stairs pictured going up to the deck where Skuthus starts suggesting this might be at a higher elevation than the other areas and only targetable from the areas adjacent to it. I posted this query on the Monolith website under this scenario a couple of weeks ago, but disappointingly it is still 'Awaiting moderation".


There are stairs going up, ergo it's higher elevation.
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Lyzi Shadow
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From the French comments section of the scenario on Monolith website:

Monolith wrote:
Bonjour,
On peut tirer dans et à partir de escaliers, et vous bénéficiez d’un bonus de surplomb quand vous tirer dans cette zone.
Effectivement on ne peut en sortir des escaliers que vers la zone directement devant


"You can shoot at and from the stairs, and you benefit from the elevation bonus when you shoot at this area.
Indeed you cannot move out the stairs area anywhere else than into the area directly in front of the stairs."

That makes the reinforcement a bit less mobile and a bit more vulnerable.
Could be useful when the Overlord is spamming Bossonian archers Bêlit has nowhere to hide from.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Lyzi Shadow wrote:
"You can shoot at and from the stairs, and you benefit from the elevation bonus when you shoot at this area...


Shouldn't that be "when you shoot from this area"? There is no benefit to shooting at a higher area, but is for shooting from a higher area.
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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It should probably be "from", but the quote from french approximates to "when you shoot in this area", it is ambiguous and could be interpreted both ways.
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Lyzi Shadow
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No there is no ambiguity considering the whole sentence.
-you can shoot AT this area:
If you are directly above you can shoot a mini placed in the stairs
-you can shoot FROM this area:
If you are in the stairs you can shoot a mini placed directly above
-you benefit from the elevation bonus when you shoot at this area (=also the stairs):
If you are directly above, you can melee attack or range attack a mini placed in the stairs, and you get the usual +1yellow bonus for doin so.

It's a boat. The stairs are leading DOWN. Therefore you get the elevation bonus when you shoot AT the stairs. Not FROM it.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Lyzi Shadow wrote:
If you are in the stairs you can shoot a mini placed directly above
-you benefit from the elevation bonus when you shoot at this area (=also the stairs):


After writing and rewriting six paragraphs disputing this i've deleted it all and will summarize with:

1) i'm no longer clear on which zone you mean with "AT this area" and "FROM this area"), so just to clear that up: to me the rear end of the ship (where Skuthus starts) could be interpreted as being higher than the center, but not lower. If the rear of the ship were lower, the helm (steering wheel) right next to Skuthus would be blocked by the center of the ship and the pilot could not see where he was going.

2) the stairs are only a small fleck (half the width of a mini's base) in a much larger area (3 mini-widths across), so there is no clear "standing on the stairs" position. Because the stairs are only about 25% the surface area of a single mini, one could argue that it's impossible to place a mini "on the stairs." The stairs take up approximately 10% of that zone, so i interpret the stairs as purely cosmetic, not "functional terrain."

Either way, of course feel free to play it how you want. The scenario makes no mention of elevation differences, and i'm not one who likes to add complexity where none is needed (especially when i have to invent the details and get agreement with the other players on them, as would be necessary here), so in my sessions the stairs are ignored as "purely cosmetic" and the ends of the ship are on the same level at the main deck (or close enough that no elevation difference need be specified).
 
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James Groesbeck
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I think Lyzi's comments and quotes are referring to the stairs leading up from below decks that are on both ships, and the one on the pirate ship is a spawn zone. I don't think they refer to the "stairs" on the main deck.
 
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Stephan Beal
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JamesG wrote:
I think Lyzi's comments and quotes are referring to the stairs leading up from below decks that are on both ships, and the one on the pirate ship is a spawn zone. I don't think they refer to the "stairs" on the main deck.


Aha. That may be (and would account for some of my confusion). The stairs from which the reinforcements spew - i consider those to be part of the main deck, not a lower area. (But that's just me... and the scenario as written .)
 
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Lyzi Shadow
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Oh sorry, yeah, I was talking about the actual stairs used as the reinforcements spawning point.

I did not realize you were talking about the stern (or is it the bow?). There are indeed 3 steps leading up to it, and you did mention they were pointing to Skuthus.

My bad!
 
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Stephan Beal
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Lyzi Shadow wrote:
Oh sorry, yeah, I was talking about the actual stairs used as the reinforcements spawning point.


In that case, if you insist on treating them as a lower level, i would argue that anyone standing in those spaces is "partially hidden" and gets a defense bonus (either an extra die or an automatic point or two of armor). e.g. an Archer firing from there only has to expose his head and part of his upper body (including the arms), which makes him a more difficult target to hit.

However, Conan isn't really intended to accommodate that level of tactical detail, so it's much simpler to just assume that people "down the stairs" are completely "off the board" until they reach the top of the stairs, at which point they are "on the board" and on the same level as the main deck.

Lyzi Shadow wrote:
I did not realize you were talking about the stern (or is it the bow?).


i'm not certain - i have to go google it every time i try to use those terms properly .
 
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James Groesbeck
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sgbeal wrote:

However, Conan isn't really intended to accommodate that level of tactical detail, so it's much simpler to just assume that people "down the stairs" are completely "off the board" until they reach the top of the stairs, at which point they are "on the board" and on the same level as the main deck.


That is reasonable, but here is the way I think Monolith has ruled it. If I recall people were saying this is what they put in the French comments about the scenario on their website.

These stairwells are an elevation change, though people can freely shoot into and out of it. Those shooting into it do get the normal bonus for shooting from a higher elevation. Units moving out of the stairs can only leave the zone from the side at the top of the stairs. Units can enter the stairs from any side (guess it makes sense that it is easier to hop down rather than climb up).

It makes no sense to me that they would rule a "partial" elevation change like this, and am really hoping the "freely shoot in and out" is a misunderstanding and what is really meant is units can shoot either in or out to adjacent zones only. If I get around to it, maybe I'll ask on the English section of the website and see what kind of answer I get.

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