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Subject: Odd duality about rulebooks.... rss

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When teaching a game, you never read off the rulebook
You will bore people, eyes aglaze this way

However, they still need to look at the rulebook, and read it anyways
Plenty of cases arise where the game teacher may have been taught something incorrectly, or otherwise misinterpreted something, so you'll want to confirm that from the source
 
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J J
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ackmondual wrote:
When teaching a game, you never read off the rulebook
You will bore people, eyes aglaze this way


Yes I do.
Quote:
However, they still need to look at the rulebook, and read it anyways
Plenty of cases arise where the game teacher may have been taught something incorrectly, or otherwise misinterpreted something, so you'll want to confirm that from the source


And that's why.

Will never understand people who don't insist that for a new game everyone reads the rulebook themselves (in advance), and they follow the thing through the book on the first play.
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Kent Reuber
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I make summaries for most games I'm going to teach, trying to capture all the turn sequence, victory conditions, and any easy-to-forget rules. That way, players can have a written document (usually about 1/4 the number of pages of the rulebook) to refer to during the game. The main rules I keep handy as a reference.
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Brian M
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Quote:
Will never understand people who don't insist that for a new game everyone reads the rulebook themselves (in advance), and they follow the thing through the book on the first play.

Often not everyone has access to the rules prior to first play, or even knows what they are going to play.

And "following through" on the first play often doesn't make a lot of sense; many rulebooks aren't laid out in a way that makes that very doable.
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Chris Graves
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Good luck getting a whole group to read a 25 page rule book before they show up for game night. I just learn the heck out of the rules, explain them well, and reference the rule book when a grey area comes up. Also, we put little weight on the importance of the first couple play throughs as we are all learning.
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Paul DeStefano
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I don't think anyone ever asked to read the rules during a first play of a game after being taught. Kinda rude...
 
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Scott
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ackmondual wrote:
You will bore people, eyes aglaze this way


You are doing it wrong.

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John Middleton
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People teaching games incorrectly is pretty common especially if they have a large background in games.

Many gamers assume something works one way, because other games worked that way. It can even be a simple thing, like whether card decks get re-shuffled, that has a major impact.

I always read the rulebook because of this. Several people reading the book are more likely to play correctly than one reading it.


But....lots of people hate reading rules, or cards, or books period. Sigh.
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John Middleton
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Geosphere wrote:
I don't think anyone ever asked to read the rules during a first play of a game after being taught. Kinda rude...



I always look at and casually read the rulebook for a new game, at the table, after being taught.

And I almost always catch something we are doing wrong.


But my group expects it and welcomes that because they know I am a rules junkie and it helps them in the end. They don't have to bother with the rules as much.


Lots of little things become very apparent if you see them in action, or not, as you look at the book.


I can see other groups being annoyed by that.
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Lluluien
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Will never understand people who don't insist that for a new game everyone reads the rulebook themselves (in advance), and they follow the thing through the book on the first play.


What I don't understand is when people don't want to read the rulebook, and then gripe when I don't mention something that only comes up in 1 out of 1000 turns until it actually comes up, on the basis of "well if I'd have known that..."


Well you know what? You would've known that if you'd read the rulebook.
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J J
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Geosphere wrote:
I don't think anyone ever asked to read the rules during a first play of a game after being taught. Kinda rude...


I would say instead that playing a game without bothering to learn the rules yourself properly is rude.
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Alex Cannon
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I think it might be a kind of social conditioning. We spend over a decade being instructed to read in school, to the point where the idea of reading becomes a chore - and we all know chores aren't fun.

Maybe we need to start a campaign so that learning the game from the rules becomes it's own game - a written puzzle to solve together.
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Russ Williams
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Geosphere wrote:
I don't think anyone ever asked to read the rules during a first play of a game after being taught. Kinda rude...

As long as the person reading the rules during play is not distractedly missing their turn (like someone absorbed by their cellphone during a play of a game), I am baffled what is rude about it. It seems a Good Thing, not a Rude Thing, to me. I'm happy to have people directly look up things they were unsure about, or generally double-check that the rules were explained correctly.
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Quantum Jack
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JasonJ0 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
When teaching a game, you never read off the rulebook
You will bore people, eyes aglaze this way


Yes I do.
Quote:
However, they still need to look at the rulebook, and read it anyways
Plenty of cases arise where the game teacher may have been taught something incorrectly, or otherwise misinterpreted something, so you'll want to confirm that from the source


And that's why.

Will never understand people who don't insist that for a new game everyone reads the rulebook themselves (in advance), and they follow the thing through the book on the first play.


Good luck learning Magic Realm this way.
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Andrew Taylor
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JasonJ0 wrote:

Will never understand people who don't insist that for a new game everyone reads the rulebook themselves (in advance), and they follow the thing through the book on the first play.

Insisting that people do homework before playing your new game is a pretty effective way to ensure your new game doesn't get played.
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John Middleton
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Quantum_Jack wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
When teaching a game, you never read off the rulebook
You will bore people, eyes aglaze this way


Yes I do.
Quote:
However, they still need to look at the rulebook, and read it anyways
Plenty of cases arise where the game teacher may have been taught something incorrectly, or otherwise misinterpreted something, so you'll want to confirm that from the source


And that's why.

Will never understand people who don't insist that for a new game everyone reads the rulebook themselves (in advance), and they follow the thing through the book on the first play.


Good luck learning Magic Realm this way.


Good luck playing a worthwhile game with someone that won't read the rules.

 
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A Deal with Death
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I think overall we just need a shift in first time play expectations.

The first play through should be seen as a learning experience where you get a grasp of the general mechanics and are exposed to some of the fringe scenarios.

If it's your first time you shouldn't expect to win. You should expect to learn.

This of course applies less to very short simple games.

 
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Chad DeShon
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If I ask to see the rule book after being taught, it is probably because I want to do something, I don't know if it is legal, and I don't want you to know what I'm planning.
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Phillip Harpring
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AlexCannon wrote:
I think it might be a kind of social conditioning. We spend over a decade being instructed to read in school, to the point where the idea of reading becomes a chore - and we all know chores aren't fun.

Maybe we need to start a campaign so that learning the game from the rules becomes it's own game - a written puzzle to solve together.


Context does have a lot to do with it. I almost never crack a book at home (other than rulebooks), but read a novel's worth of posts on BGG every week.

Someone needs to come up with rulebooks that resemble the form of a facebook news feed, then everyone at the table will be experts!
 
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Chris Johnson
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Geosphere wrote:
I don't think anyone ever asked to read the rules during a first play of a game after being taught. Kinda rude...


I used to do this all the time; I sometimes played with a couple of new game junkies that were notorious for getting the rules wrong when they taught them to others (literally *every* time).

The only way to get the rules right with them was to follow along in the rulebook as they went, correcting where necessary.



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Russ Williams
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DegenerateElite wrote:
Good luck playing a worthwhile game with someone that won't read the rules.

Hmm? I play lots of worthwhile games, ranging from simple abstract strategy games to typical BGG-style euros/strategy games to non-trivial wargames, and most of them are with people who have not read the rules,

(That said, I certainly like when more people read the rules themselves. But sadly that's not the world I live in.)
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Chris Laudermilk
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russ wrote:
DegenerateElite wrote:
Good luck playing a worthwhile game with someone that won't read the rules.

Hmm? I play lots of worthwhile games, ranging from simple abstract strategy games to typical BGG-style euros/strategy games to non-trivial wargames, and most of them are with people who have not read the rules,

(That said, I certainly like when more people read the rules themselves. But sadly that's not the world I live in.)

Same here. I'm kind of the designated rules guy in my group. For games I own, I'll read them ahead of time and sometimes try to watch some tutorial videos or read up on the forum here. Sometimes I get thrown the rulebook when a new-to-the-group game gets broken out. While they all set up, I'll quickly read through (obviously not heavy fare).

I've got a decent method of presenting the rules that everyone is able to figure out the game and get playing most of the time. We will supplement that with referencing the book for specific questions on technicalities that were unclear. Many games we play I'm the only one who's actually looked at the book & everyone plays effectively. Works for us.
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Garth Tams
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DegenerateElite wrote:
Quantum_Jack wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
When teaching a game, you never read off the rulebook
You will bore people, eyes aglaze this way


Yes I do.
Quote:
However, they still need to look at the rulebook, and read it anyways
Plenty of cases arise where the game teacher may have been taught something incorrectly, or otherwise misinterpreted something, so you'll want to confirm that from the source


And that's why.

Will never understand people who don't insist that for a new game everyone reads the rulebook themselves (in advance), and they follow the thing through the book on the first play.


Good luck learning Magic Realm this way.


Good luck playing a worthwhile game with someone that won't read the rules.



Quite a bizarre statement. I play with a guy with dyslexia, and we prefer him to not read the rules. He will get them more bungled than if he doesn't read them. We play Arkwright, Mage Knight Board Game, 18OE: On the Rails of the Orient Express full game, Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization etc. However, they probably are not worthwhile games.
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John Middleton
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The quote that you all responded to was in response to playing Magic Realm, not simple games.

Go back and look at the quote chain.


Good luck playing Magic Realm with people that won't read the rules.


There are plenty of games that have simple rules.
 
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Russ Williams
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DegenerateElite wrote:
The quote that you all responded to was in response to playing Magic Realm.


Not simple games.


Good luck playing MAgic Realm with people that won't read the rules.


There are plenty of games that have simple rules.


Ah, so "Good luck playing a worthwhile game with someone that won't read the rules." meant "Good luck playing a worthwhile game of Magic Realm with someone that won't read the rules."?

OK, fair enough!

(But hopefully you can see why the original sentence might have sounded like a more general statement...)
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