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Subject: 2-3 player trog attrition points rss

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Tyler McVety
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Beverly Hills
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In a 2-3 player game, does the player controlling the trogs in a battle get the attrition points? Or are those points only awarded in player vs player combat?
 
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James Mathias
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mcvetyty wrote:
In a 2-3 player game, does the player controlling the trogs in a battle get the attrition points? Or are those points only awarded in player vs player combat?


Attrition points are not awarded to the Trogs, nor the player controlling them in a 2 and 3 player game during battle resolution.
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Barry Miller
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To support James' reply above, this is clear from reading the paragraph inside the white box, bottom left corner of page 10, incase you overlooked it.

It says: "Trogs never score Victory Points"



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Fito R
Argentina
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Also remember that Trogs can capture prisoners in 2-3 player games, but they don't score points for them either.

More importantly, if YOU capture Trog units, they are permanent since they cannot pay points to get them back.
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Saiful Remy
Malaysia
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Yeap, the downside of capturing too many Trogs is that the Trog figure pool is now limited so if you flip a Trog token and need to place Trogs but there's no more Trogs, you have to dismiss one of your units back into your reserve.

But so far, this has not happen to me and my sessions ^o^ There are always Trogs in the reserve!!
 
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Voy-tak Krawomms
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But if I am killing trogs, (2/3 player game, so my opponent is controlling them) I am getting the points awarded for attrition, right?
 
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James Mathias
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Voy_tak wrote:
But if I am killing trogs, (2/3 player game, so my opponent is controlling them) I am getting the points awarded for attrition, right?


Yes.
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Voy-tak Krawomms
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Joou wrote:
Also remember that Trogs can capture prisoners in 2-3 player games, but they don't score points for them either.

More importantly, if YOU capture Trog units, they are permanent since they cannot pay points to get them back.


And I am scoring points for captured Trogs?
 
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Fito R
Argentina
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Also yes.
 
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Voy-tak Krawomms
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Joou wrote:
Also yes.

Where is that written?
 
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Grant Rodiek
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Voy_tak wrote:
Joou wrote:
Also yes.

Where is that written?


You score for all prisoners. The rules don't explicitly state that you score for each race, as that is redundant.

Is it a prisoner? Yes? Score 1 point per round.
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Voy-tak Krawomms
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HerrohGrant wrote:
Voy_tak wrote:
Joou wrote:
Also yes.

Where is that written?


You score for all prisoners. The rules don't explicitly state that you score for each race, as that is redundant.

Is it a prisoner? Yes? Score 1 point per round.

Thx 4 clarification.
But the problem with the redundancy is that ther are quite some specific rules for the Trogs during the 2/3 player game therefore, all of them has to be covered/clarified.
And here on BGG we meet to do that.
 
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casey holbrook
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I agree there needs to be more clarification on this capturing of trog. If this is the case I might just play a variant with our groups and maybe have the other player lose 1 vp instead of two to remove the trog out of capture. As it is to continue to gain vp's each round from trog captured units it will change the balence of the battle objections every time a trog is involved. This wouldn't be so bad with two players as both players would have an equal chance of controlling the outcome. However with three one person will have no say in the outcome and to me that seems a bit wrong when there could easily be something implemented to keep everything balanced. I just don't like the idea of guaranteed vp's from one battle for the entire game.
 
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Fito R
Argentina
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Uh? But Trogs are controlled by another player in 2-3 player games. How is that guaranteed? Sure capturing Trogs is profitable, but everyone can do it, and it's never free. This is the opposite of asymmetric.
 
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casey holbrook
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Guaranteed vp. Once you capture a trog. There is no way to get it un-captured therefore you would be getting vp every round guaranteed. I know that it is equal for all players to take advantage of this but I'm saying I think it will eventually mess up the intention of the battle system. As there will no longer be a choice but to capture trog. For in the long run you will gain more points. You should be able to lose vps to remove trogs just like you can use your own tactics cards as if they were the trogs cards
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Mikolaj Witkowski
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ravid wrote:
Guaranteed vp. Once you capture a trog. There is no way to get it un-captured therefore you would be getting vp every round guaranteed. I know that it is equal for all players to take advantage of this but I'm saying I think it will eventually mess up the intention of the battle system. As there will no longer be a choice but to capture trog. For in the long run you will gain more points. You should be able to lose vps to remove trogs just like you can use your own tactics cards as if they were the trogs cards

Yes, that's the gist of it. With normal interpretation each battle with trogs forces trogs to fight over take prisoner goal as if nothing else mattered as a trog captured on turn one means certain 5vp.
 
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Fito R
Argentina
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borsook wrote:
ravid wrote:
Guaranteed vp. Once you capture a trog. There is no way to get it un-captured therefore you would be getting vp every round guaranteed. I know that it is equal for all players to take advantage of this but I'm saying I think it will eventually mess up the intention of the battle system. As there will no longer be a choice but to capture trog. For in the long run you will gain more points. You should be able to lose vps to remove trogs just like you can use your own tactics cards as if they were the trogs cards

Yes, that's the gist of it. With normal interpretation each battle with trogs forces trogs to fight over take prisoner goal as if nothing else mattered as a trog captured on turn one means certain 5vp.

Capturing a Trog turn one is not free. You lose the positional advantage of otherwise moving into that territory. You might lose your own units to Attrition. And if you ever decide you DO want to get that region later, it will have a Trog Nest token with potentially more units. Personally, I don't think it's so obviously better to take the prisoner and the five points, but hey! Diff'rent strokes.
 
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Dave Sands
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New Westminster
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Joou wrote:
borsook wrote:
ravid wrote:
Guaranteed vp. Once you capture a trog. There is no way to get it un-captured therefore you would be getting vp every round guaranteed. I know that it is equal for all players to take advantage of this but I'm saying I think it will eventually mess up the intention of the battle system. As there will no longer be a choice but to capture trog. For in the long run you will gain more points. You should be able to lose vps to remove trogs just like you can use your own tactics cards as if they were the trogs cards

Yes, that's the gist of it. With normal interpretation each battle with trogs forces trogs to fight over take prisoner goal as if nothing else mattered as a trog captured on turn one means certain 5vp.

Capturing a Trog turn one is not free. You lose the positional advantage of otherwise moving into that territory. You might lose your own units to Attrition. And if you ever decide you DO want to get that region later, it will have a Trog Nest token with potentially more units. Personally, I don't think it's so obviously better to take the prisoner and the five points, but hey! Diff'rent strokes.


We played a 3 player game last night and 4 Trogs were taken prisoner in total - 1 by Machines, 2 by the Marines, and 1 by the Pilgrims. All in all it seemed pretty balanced given that it was an option for everyone. The idea of paying 1 VP to release a Trog and thus remove the opportunity for a faction (perhaps leading in the game) to not continue to receive the prisoner points is equally an option however, I really don't think many players would make that choice. I personally, would not sacrifice a vp to deny one other player to receive vp's in a 3 player game as the other non-involved player would then get the advantage.
There are so many options in this game to score points already (battles, attrition, enable scoring, and capturing prisoners) I choose to focus on that and not how to lose them.
 
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