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Subject: infinite of everything combo? rss

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Ian Lim
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we did a lot of card drawing which results in emptying the common deck even the discard pile is empty.

and the barbarians do this:

use 1 raze token to raze watchtower (gives 2 card if razed) in his hand

the only thing left in the deck is earthquake (event: each player gain 1 tech) and Spring (Instant: choose production building, it produces its goods)

so the barbarian player draws those 2 cards. but the event was replaced as per rules.. so the discard pile (only contains watchtower which was just razed) was shuffled back to deck so earthquake was replaced by the same watchtower

then he use "spring" to its "sentry tower" (production: 1 worker and 1 sword) to gain a sword and a worker,

he razes the same watchtower.....

then there goes the loop...

which gives 1 worker and 1 tech gain in each loop.. so with 999999 times loop it will give 999999 workers and worker card be converted to any resource...

and with Raid (every time you raze gain 1 VP) and in play
you gain 999999 VP too

999999 VP, 999999 Workers, 999999 Food, 999999 Wood, 999999 Stone and 999999 basic tech is insane shake

is that right?
 
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Alvin C
Australia
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Quote:
IN ORDER TO RAZE A COMMON CARD FROM HAND:
1) Select a Common card from his hand.
2) Discard 1 Raze token.
3) Take from the general supply the Goods depicted in the Raze field of the card.
4) Discard the card.

So the watchtower is not in the discard pile at the time the barbarian draws 2 cards.
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steven smolders
Belgium
Heist-op-den-Berg
Antwerpen
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If you ever run out of cards in any deck,
reshuffle the appropriate discarded pile to
create a new deck.
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Jan-Willem van Leeuwen
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Tyndal wrote:
Quote:
IN ORDER TO RAZE A COMMON CARD FROM HAND:
1) Select a Common card from his hand.
2) Discard 1 Raze token.
3) Take from the general supply the Goods depicted in the Raze field of the card.
4) Discard the card.

So the watchtower is not in the discard pile at the time the barbarian draws 2 cards.

So, hypothetically, what if instead of the earthquake card, there would have been another watchtower in the initial draw pile? That would probably work to get this infinite loop, I think.
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Koolin
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wolverine1977 wrote:
If you ever run out of cards in any deck,
reshuffle the appropriate discarded pile to
create a new deck.


Since there was a similar combo for the faction deck of the Japanese, I think they nerved the faction deck by not allowing the reshuffle. For the common deck I do not think they made any nerving. Cannot find the thread right now, but search for it and you will find (it is relatively old though).
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Ian Lim
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thanks for the replies.

i really taught when razing a card it immediately goes to discard...but anyway it doesnt matter since the barbarian player still lots of watchtower a like (flying gizmo and alike) in hand that gives 2 cards in raze section. and also currently have bunch of workers (approx. 10+) and raze tokens (approx 6) as Jan-Willem pointed out the loop still works.

yea. i heard/know about faction discard deck is never shuffled when the faction deck is emptied. but i think they didnt say about common deck. in most of our games we always empty our faction decks(japanese and barbarians mostly do it)... and this is the 1st time we emptied the common deck...


------------------------------
and also (off topic) i have a question what happen when you run out of faction deck using japanese' trade route? ... you still get a resource or not? since you cant put a faction card underneath it to indicate the deal.
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Ian Lim
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wolverine1977 wrote:
If you ever run out of cards in any deck,
reshuffle the appropriate discarded pile to
create a new deck.

we did a lot of card drawing which results in emptying the common deck even the discard pile is empty.
 
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Elena Litovka
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dchamp wrote:
and also (off topic) i have a question what happen when you run out of faction deck using japanese' trade route? ... you still get a resource or not? since you cant put a faction card underneath it to indicate the deal.


Somewhere here it was answered that you cannot use Trade route if you don't have your faction deck
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Christopher Corrigan
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dchamp wrote:
we did a lot of card drawing which results in emptying the common deck even the discard pile is empty.

and the barbarians do this:

use 1 raze token to raze watchtower (gives 2 card if razed) in his hand

the only thing left in the deck is earthquake (event: each player gain 1 tech) and Spring (Instant: choose production building, it produces its goods)

so the barbarian player draws those 2 cards. but the event was replaced as per rules.. so the discard pile (only contains watchtower which was just razed) was shuffled back to deck so earthquake was replaced by the same watchtower

then he use "spring" to its "sentry tower" (production: 1 worker and 1 sword) to gain a sword and a worker,

he razes the same watchtower.....

then there goes the loop...

which gives 1 worker and 1 tech gain in each loop.. so with 999999 times loop it will give 999999 workers and worker card be converted to any resource...

and with Raid (every time you raze gain 1 VP) and in play
you gain 999999 VP too

999999 VP, 999999 Workers, 999999 Food, 999999 Wood, 999999 Stone and 999999 basic tech is insane shake

is that right?


In my little world of ancients miniature wargaming, we have long had a rather negative monicker for folks who prefer to find their prowess via rules lawyering than by their tactical and situational acumen. While they may have fun trying to find holes or weird interpretations in a rule book, it is ultimatly an immature, asocial and lonely endeavor.
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Ian Lim
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@christopher: Honestly i don't understand what you mean.
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Konrad Borowiecki
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Can someone please quote the cards involved in this 'loop'? Would be good to analyse the text to the situation and have a record of it in the thread.
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Ian Lim
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@Kboro
Empty common deck (or 2 cards left)
watchtower (or any common card with 2 cards in raze section)
Spring on
sentry tower

infinite workers

if with Earthquake infinite tech tokens too
with Raid, infinite VP too
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Winston Spencer
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dchamp wrote:
@Kboro
Empty common deck (or 2 cards left)
watchtower (or any common card with 2 cards in raze section)
Spring on
sentry tower

infinite workers

if with Earthquake infinite tech tokens too
with Raid, infinite VP too


You need a discard pile with only few common cards (the exact number will depends of how many cards you can draw when you start the "combo").

Even that you have this setup, all that your opponent need to do to break your combo is to draw the spring before you can. So you need to do the combo after everyone has passed or don´t have a way to draw cards.

It's an unrealistic setup to happen in a real game, even if you can draw all the common deck, you will have so many cards in the discard common discard pile that you didn't have the garantee that you will draw the Spring again.
 
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Ian Lim
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@winston
it was happened in a real game.

in most of our games.. we always emptied our 30 card faction deck all faction(except atlanteans, since atlanteans focus more on common cards). (yea even a 57 card deck of a faction deck, all expansions, the japanese and barbarians can empty a 57 faction deck consistently) so every draw goes to common deck which results to emptying the common deck. this happened at last/5th round and i think after the common deck was reshuffled about 4-5 times.
 
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Winston Spencer
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dchamp wrote:
@winston
it was happened in a real game.

in most of our games.. we always emptied our 30 card faction deck all faction(except atlanteans, since atlanteans focus more on common cards). (yea even a 57 card deck of a faction deck, all expansions, the japanese and barbarians can empty a 57 faction deck consistently) so every draw goes to common deck which results to emptying the common deck. this happened at last/5th round and i think after the common deck was reshuffled about 4-5 times.


Draw so many cards ins´t the main problem (it´s still a difficult task), the problem is kept the discard pile empty.
The meta in your group probably is really friendly to let people keep a huge draw engine to maintain it. All the groups that I know don´t get near to draw enough to reshuffle the common deck more than 2 times and the discard pile is never empty.
 
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Ian Lim
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we NEVER had a draw engine in play to maintain it. a watchtower in play or any common card that has 2 cards in raze section(or even 1 card and 1 other) in play gets razed ASAP, it didnt stay long because all players want cards. japanese trade route is a card 90% of all the time. and most of our deals are cards too. in our experience drawing lots of card is the key in the game more cards means more points. we almost NEVER use the faction ability: "discard to worker to convert into food/wood/stone". most of the time it is converted to "draw a card". Neighbors' fence is always sold out after you play it.

"Again we never maintain draw engine in board. it is a target to everybody"
 
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Winston Spencer
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dchamp wrote:
"Again we never maintain draw engine in board. it is a target to everybody"


In this case, could you post the decks lists you use and how many players you play? Because I don't see your group do anything different that the groups that I know but you guys appears to draw much more cards or draw the same amount but discard much less (be constructing or razing locations and cards).
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Ian Lim
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Everything ALL IN!
(except replacements like pyramids, farm etc)
all 57 cards available for each faction (except atlanteans with only 50 cards)

we tried constructing a 30 card deck before, but we always empty our faction deck so from that time we just play everything, much fun and longer time (yea really really long)
 
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Konrad Borowiecki
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I get it you have all cards in hand
I was thinking that you keep drawing from the discard pile some other way. Though you reduced it to a bare minimum and this is how you recycle through it.

If the above is true then I would be very interested how can you get yourself into such situation, i.e. having half of the common deck in hand?

Could you possibly describe the steps which will guaranty such situation?
Is one of them not attacking other player's watchtowers, as in my experience they always go very soon?
 
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Ian Lim
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KBoro wrote:

If the above is true then I would be very interested how can you get yourself into such situation, i.e. having half of the common deck in hand?

most players emptied their faction deck so they focus on common deck. the atlantean player played a lots of common cards in play. we always focus on card drawers (as i said above) which results to run out of common deck

KBoro wrote:

Could you possibly describe the steps which will guaranty such situation?
Is one of them not attacking other player's watchtowers, as in my experience they always go very soon?

i think there is no guaranty we can get that situation again. if we do i think it will be a very very low chance, since we found this out, i think in our competitive game our players will be aware and will try to thwart it if someone is trying that. this happens because this is the 5th/last round and all other payers have passed, as often the barbarians are the faction that is more likely last to pass.
 
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