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Subject: Nefarious Powder Monkey (minor spoilers) rss

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Jordan Hilton
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How would you guys think that Nefarious and Powder Monkey interact?

Nefarious:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
For each reputation you spend, get +1 Raid


Powder Monkey:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ship upgrades that increase raid values increase them one more than listed


My groups is heatedly deadlocked between two possible ways to interpret the combination
 
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Travis Merkle
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Interesting question.
Spoiler (click to reveal)

My interpretation is the bonus would be +(X+1) raid, where X is the amount of reputation spent (minimum of 1). I see the argument for +2 raid / reputation, but the wording of Powder Monkey implies that the upgrade provides its total bonus, then Powder Monkey adds one to that bonus.
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David desJardins
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If you spend X Reputation (where X is at least 1), get X+1 bonus to Raid.
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David desJardins
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TradenMyr wrote:
I see the argument for +2 raid / reputation


I don't see any argument at all for that. My second choice would be that Powder Monkey has no effect with Nefarious.
 
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Joseph Neville
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lykouragh wrote:
How would you guys think that Nefarious and Powder Monkey interact?

Nefarious:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
For each reputation you spend, get +1 Raid


Powder Monkey:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ship upgrades that increase raid values increase them one more than listed


My groups is heatedly deadlocked between two possible ways to interpret the combination


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Powder Monkey specifies ship upgrades. Those are the upgrades you buy each game and place on the ship. The most you could ever get from Powder Monkey is +2 for each ship, assuming you put a +raid upgrade in both slots on both ships.
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David desJardins
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Wenadin01 wrote:
The most you could ever get from Powder Monkey is +2 for each ship, assuming you put a +raid upgrade in both slots on both ships.


No matter how much you increase the Raid value of your support ship, it still only gives you +1.
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Rob Stevenson
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Does the powder monkey increase the 2 dice you get from a Nimble support ship to 3 dice when raiding?

Nimble is a ship upgrade, and if used when the ship is a support ship to a raiding flagship it increases the raid value.

 
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David desJardins
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rosie_187 wrote:
Does the powder monkey increase the 2 dice you get from a Nimble support ship to 3 dice when raiding?


No.
 
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Nathanaël Dufour
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Wenadin01 wrote:
The most you could ever get from Powder Monkey is +2 for each ship, assuming you put a +raid upgrade in both slots on both ships.


No matter how much you increase the Raid value of your support ship, it still only gives you +1.


I think Joseph meant both could be flagship (at different time).
 
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Gerald Butler
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This led to an argument in our group that was borderline bitter gulp

We semi-convinced the person trying to make each reputation token count as +2 of the following line of reasoning for why that shouldn't be.

When forming a dice pool, the rules state: "Take dice equal to the ship’s value in the appropriate category. If upgrades or damage cards increase or decrease the appropriate value, adjust accordingly. This is your dice pool. Various other effects may add or subtract dice from your dice pool." Nefarious says that each reputation token adds +1 Raid, which is a raid value. Powder Monkey says that each upgrade adds one die more than the value listed, but die totals are not determined until your raid values are totaled. Thus, since Nefarious adds to values, the order would be:

-> determine raid value R by looking at flagship raid value
-> Nefarious makes raid value = R+reptokens
-> Powder Monkey makes dice pool = (R+reptokens)+1
-> Advisor expertise, support ship present, support ship upgrade that adds 1 extra support die, enmity, and Booke entries referring to number of dice--all of these collectively called "bonuses"--add dice at this point to make dice pool = (R+reptokens)+1+bonuses

This is slightly altered if you have another raid upgrade on the flagship to (R+reptokens)+2+bonuses, because PM says "ship upgrades" add one more die.

It would be nice to get official clarification on this, as it is definitely ambiguous.
 
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Frank Pelkofer
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Everyone seems to be overthinking this. The Powermonkey's bonus only applies to ship upgrades, which are the cardboard counters you put on your ship areas of your province board. The powdermonkey clearly gives +1 per cardboard counter. If you have a Deadly upgrade, you get +2 from the upgrade and +1 from the Powder Monkey. If you have 2 Deadly upgrades on your flagship, you get +2 from each upgrade and +2 for the Powdermonkey, for +6. If you have a ship upgrade that lets you spend other things to get extra Raid, the Powdermonkey will give you an additional +1 for that upgrade.

Nimble is clearly an upgrade that adds to raid value (in certain situations). The powdermonkey doesn't say it only applies to the flagship. So, if you're raiding with a Nimble Support ship, I think the rules clearly give the support ship a total of +3 (1 for support, 1 for Nimble, 1 for Powdermonkey).

I don't see how you can rule it any other way.
 
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David desJardins
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countertorque wrote:
Nimble is clearly an upgrade that adds to raid value (in certain situations). The powdermonkey doesn't say it only applies to the flagship. So, if you're raiding with a Nimble Support ship, I think the rules clearly give the support ship a total of +3 (1 for support, 1 for Nimble, 1 for Powdermonkey).

I don't see how you can rule it any other way.


Definitely not. The Nimble upgrade does NOT add to, or modify, Raid value. What it does is add +1 die to your dice pool, regardless of the Raid value. (The only requirement is that the Raid value of that ship must be greater than zero, otherwise it can't be a support ship.)

NIMBLE: Add 1 extra die when a support ship.
 
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Becq Starforged
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My understanding is that the net effect of the Powder Monkey's text (not counting the Raid +1 ability listed below the text) is to add 0-2 (assuming that a ship can't have more that two upgrades) to the flagship's Raid value, depending on the number of "Raid upgrades" (Terrible, Deadly, and anything else that specifies "+[something] to Raid") the flagship has. Such upgrades on the support ship wouldn't matter, because while the Powder monkey would increase the raid value of those upgrades, the amount of total Raid the support ship doesn't matter (as long as it is at least 1); however if the support ship also had a raid penalty bringing it's raid value under one, then the Powder Monkey could counteract that, allowing the ship to be used as support.

I would rule that upgrades that modify support instead of raid would not be affected by the Powder Monkey, as he improves Raid upgrades, not support upgrades.

I would also rule that you'd need to
Spoiler (click to reveal)
spend at least one reputation for Nefarious to count as a "Raid upgrade".

 
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