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Tramways» Forums » Rules

Subject: Are single building loops allowed? Can you deliver through them? rss

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Yani
Switzerland
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1. Is it allowed to build a 3 (or more) track loop going through a building (eg. from its right side to its top right and then to its top)?

2. If so, is it allowed then to deliver from it to it (or to another building) through this loop, thus getting extra +1 HP and +3/+5 money? (you don't "cross" the building twice)

I couldn't find anything in the rules that prohibits the above but it could be a loophole.
 
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dyvim tanelorn
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You can build a loop, but when a passenger travels he must touch every location in his travel only one time during the travel.
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Yani
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RAW say "cross", not "touch", thus my OP.
Quote:
A Passenger cannot cross the same building/Parcel twice.
 
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Chris Young
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coralsaw wrote:
RAW say "cross", not "touch", thus my OP.
Quote:
A Passenger cannot cross the same building/Parcel twice.


Your passenger is still crossing that building if the links are going into and back out of it.
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Yani
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chrisy wrote:
coralsaw wrote:
RAW say "cross", not "touch", thus my OP.
Quote:
A Passenger cannot cross the same building/Parcel twice.


Your passenger is still crossing that building if the links are going into and back out of it.


Is this your interpretation of what "crossing" means or do you have some insight into the designer's intent? Not meaning to be critical, just genuinely asking.

I understand crossing as "enters the tile", not "exits the tile". Could be wrong though, hence the OP.
 
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Chris Young
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coralsaw wrote:
chrisy wrote:
coralsaw wrote:
RAW say "cross", not "touch", thus my OP.
Quote:
A Passenger cannot cross the same building/Parcel twice.


Your passenger is still crossing that building if the links are going into and back out of it.


Is this your interpretation of what "crossing" means or do you have some insight into the designer's intent? Not meaning to be critical, just genuinely asking.


My interpretation. You cross the tile if you enter and exit it, however I see now that your original question was "can I start at a building, exit via a track which loops back to that same building, and deliver my passenger there", so you are crossing it only once. My answer would still be that you can't do this, as the passenger has been in the same building twice. It is against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rules. Actually I thought starting and ending at the same building was expressly forbidden, but I don't have the rulebook to hand.

You definitely can't come from elsewhere and then do that loop at the end, as the passenger always gets off at the first stop of a particular type.

btw, as to your first question, I can see that this could happen accidentally by merging a building, so I suspect it is legal albeit not a great use of resources.
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Yani
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chrisy wrote:
coralsaw wrote:
chrisy wrote:
coralsaw wrote:
RAW say "cross", not "touch", thus my OP.
Quote:
A Passenger cannot cross the same building/Parcel twice.


Your passenger is still crossing that building if the links are going into and back out of it.


Is this your interpretation of what "crossing" means or do you have some insight into the designer's intent? Not meaning to be critical, just genuinely asking.


My interpretation. You cross the tile if you enter and exit it, however I see now that your original question was "can I start at a building, exit via a track which loops back to that same building, and deliver my passenger there", so you are crossing it only once. My answer would still be that you can't do this, as the passenger has been in the same building twice. It is against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rules. Actually I thought starting and ending at the same building was expressly forbidden, but I don't have the rulebook to hand.

You definitely can't come from elsewhere and then do that loop at the end, as the passenger always gets off at the first stop of a particular type.

btw, as to your first question, I can see that this could happen accidentally by merging a building, so I suspect it is legal albeit not a great use of resources.


Agree, that's why I thought it might be a loophole. Would be nice if Alban patches it officially, if so.
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dyvim tanelorn
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There is an example in the rules where there there is a blue building near a parcel and a connection. One player upgrade the parcel to a blue building, and there how is a 2 tiles blue building with a connection inside itself. The manual says it is useful only as a ride for children visiting the mall ;)
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Yani
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Tanelorn wrote:
There is an example in the rules where there there is a blue building near a parcel and a connection. One player upgrade the parcel to a blue building, and there how is a 2 tiles blue building with a connection inside itself. The manual says it is useful only as a ride for children visiting the mall


Oh well spotted! Seems like looping is not allowed then.
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AlbaN ViarD
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looping is not allowed
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Paolo Russo
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To be clear:
Building a loop is allowed.
Travelling in a loop is not allowed.

Right?
 
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Yani
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Yep, see the manual example per above.
 
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Eduardo Cruz
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Arcozelo - Vila Nova de Gaia
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I don't think that way.
My view is that building tracks to make a loop is forbidden, exception made when a building on a parcel makes the rails directed to there a loop.

If you see the description of the course of actions on that example in page 9 top right, you'll see that what make the loop possible.

See the description in page 5 middle left "Build or upgrade links":

"A complete link is a string of one player’s Rail tiles that connects one Building or Parcel to another in an uninterrupted path. The start of the link must point to a Parcel or a Building; the end of the link must also point to a Parcel or a Building."

Mine emphasis on "another".
 
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Yani
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Interesting. Assuming you are right, where does your "exception" derive from?
 
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Eduardo Cruz
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coralsaw wrote:
Interesting. Assuming you are right, where does your "exception" derive from?


Build a building on a parcel with another building of the same type adjacent, where already exist a track linking that two previous different locations (building vs parcel).

And Alban Viard said that "looping is not allowed" previous in this thread.

Imagine a building in a corner - 2 viable exits, you could make that building useless if looping was allowed. Not much sense don't you think?
 
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Yani
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Dugy wrote:
coralsaw wrote:
Interesting. Assuming you are right, where does your "exception" derive from?


Build a building on a parcel with another building of the same type adjacent, where already exist a track linking that two previous different locations (building vs parcel).

And Alban Viard said that "looping is not allowed" previous in this thread.

Imagine a building in a corner - 2 viable exits, you could make that building useless if looping was allowed. Not much sense don't you think?


Oh I know a lot of train games where you can render cities, tracks etc useless on purpose.

I don't see where the exception is derived from rules-wise, assuming your initial assumption is correct. I guess we have to wait for Alban to rule.
 
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Eduardo Cruz
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nabla wrote:
looping is not allowed


He already answer the question.

Pag.5 - BUILD OR UPGRADE RAILS

"A. BUILD OR UPGRADE RAILS
You may either Build New Rails on a Link or Upgrade an Existing Link.
A complete link is a string of one player’s Rail tiles that connects one Building or Parcel to another in an uninterrupted path. The start of the link must point to a Parcel or a Building; the end of the link must also point to a Parcel or a Building."

The rules point that already. Unfortunatly, on page 6 top right, the list of things that you are not allowed to do, don't mention the loop thing.

And, in this game, you can cities and tracks useless on purpose. As long it's not a loop.
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dyvim tanelorn
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I don't understand why you say that this means that you cannot build a loop...

From my understanding of the rules, you can build a loop, there is nothing that forbid this. What you cannot do is move passenger on the loop.
To be clear, you can build this (where X are location and - are tracks):

X0--X1--X2--X3
|_ _|

and ou can move a passenger X0->X1->X2->X3 what you cannot do is move a passenger X0->X1->X2->X1->X2->X1->X2...->X3 (it's obvious, it would be infinite!).
 
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Eduardo Cruz
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A loop on a single track is something like this:

X_
|_|

That is building a track from the same origin to the same destination location.
And that, according to the point on pag.5, is forbidden.
Hope is more clear now.
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E Thomas
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Just to cover all cases, The loop structure below is allowed

X0--X1--X2--X3
|_ _ _ _ _ _ |

But it is illegal to move a passenger from X0 to X0 using the
X0->X1->X2->X3->X0 loop.

Correct?
 
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Eduardo Cruz
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Correct.
But that's not "the" loop we're talking about, "the" loop is building track with the same origin and destination (like the example I mentioned above).
Or this that isn't allowed too:

X1_
X1   |
   |_|
 
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