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SeaFall» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question on enmity (at war) rss

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Steve Fierens
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Just a quick question. What happens with the enmity tokens in the 'at war'-section of your province board at the end of a gaming session. Do they convert to permanent stickers on the respective provinces ? Are they returned to their owners ? Or do they just get carried over to the next session ?
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Gustav Weberup
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Lund
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All enmity on the province boards are getting permanent stickers on the map at the end of the game (after enmity removal). It doesn't matter if it's in the "at war with" section or any of the other province board sites.
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j n
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Webbe wrote:
All enmity on the province boards are getting permanent stickers on the map at the end of the game (after enmity removal). It doesn't matter if it's in the "at war with" section or any of the other province board sites.


This. They get converted to stickers (and the tokens returned to their owners).
 
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Aaron Hayden
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Wait, they do? Can someone quote the actual rule that shows this? I didn't realize the enmity on player board became permanent. I thought it was just when you attacked the actual province, i.e. It wouldn't happen when attacking ship to ship.
 
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j n
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AaronHayden wrote:
Wait, they do? Can someone quote the actual rule that shows this? I didn't realize the enmity on player board became permanent. I thought it was just when you attacked the actual province, i.e. It wouldn't happen when attacking ship to ship.


Wait, what do you think happens when you attack a province?

When you attack a province, the enmity goes on the player board (in the section that was plundered). If the game lasts to another winter phase after this happens, it moves to the At War section. Per p.11, "Placing and Moving Enmity Tokens:

Quote:
Enmity tokens on province boards are moved to that player’s
At War With section. The island/province still has enmity toward the
province whose enmity tokens they have
but the site where it was
located can be raided again.


The tokens are still on the province, and if not returned, should be made permanent just like any other.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
When you attack a ship, the enmity goes directly to the At War section. How do you think the game would differentiate between these tokens and those gained from attacking the province in a previous year?
 
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Aaron Hayden
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I don't know. I guess we thought enmity between players didn't actually carry over. We thought it seemed dumb, but we couldn't find a rule that would move those tokens over to become stickers since, at least so far in our game, we've only attacked ship to ship and not the actual province (field, vault, warehouse, etc.). Like I said, it seemed dumb, but on the other hand, since I'm actually ahead in our game by quite a bit, I'm giving enmity to one other player every game. It sucks that it will become permanent every game and essentially compound.
 
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Becq Starforged
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AaronHayden wrote:
Wait, they do? Can someone quote the actual rule that shows this? I didn't realize the enmity on player board became permanent. I thought it was just when you attacked the actual province, i.e. It wouldn't happen when attacking ship to ship.

In the enmity portion of the end of game sequence:
SeaFall, p.21 wrote:
After you’ve finished taking back enmity tokens and crossing out enmity stickers, replace each of your remaining enmity tokens on any region with a permanent enmity sticker in that region and then take back those tokens.
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j n
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
It's kind of in the nature of catch up mechanics to suck a bit for those ahead :)

Yes, if the player never uses it to attack you, and stays behind in glory, and nobody else gives that player enmity stickers that cover over yours, and you don't spend your end-game fortune/reputation successes taking back the token and/or crossing off stickers, and you don't use the Vengeful appellation to take back the token, then the stickers will pile up until you eventually start losing a glory at the end of each game for being unable to place new stickers.

Note that the stickers only apply on defense, they don't count for the At War bonus when that player attacks you, so if you're not planning to attack them it would be a while before you need to worry about it.

(Also note that the stickers go on the game map, not the player board, in the appropriate spots).
 
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Becq Starforged
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AaronHayden wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I don't know. I guess we thought enmity between players didn't actually carry over. We thought it seemed dumb, but we couldn't find a rule that would move those tokens over to become stickers since, at least so far in our game, we've only attacked ship to ship and not the actual province (field, vault, warehouse, etc.). Like I said, it seemed dumb, but on the other hand, since I'm actually ahead in our game by quite a bit, I'm giving enmity to one other player every game. It sucks that it will become permanent every game and essentially compound.

Keep in mind that enmity stickers, while "permanent", are not permanent. That is, leftover fortune/rep tokens at the end of the game may let you remove some enmity before they become stickers, or even some stickers. And other people's enmity might eventually sticker over yours. Neither option is fast, but those stickers can go away, if you let them.

Of course, if you continue raiding, then the stickers are likely to build up. That's a semi-hidden "cost" of raiding -- that people wind up hating you for it, both in the meta-game and in the game mechanics!
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