John McLaren
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Just wondering of those of you who consistently bash a game or two actually have ever created one from scratch? I find it humorous that people are hard or downright rude to creators, and yet have never produced a game. I mean threatening bodily harm to a creator whose game you do not like is a bit extreme. Just don't buy another title from them.

So I pose the question:

Who here has actually created, produced and sold a game in the game market? meaning it has been distributed by someone other then you or your MOM, family included?
 
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David Brown
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I've never made a car but if a bought one that was poorly made/designed I'd be a bit pissed
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Tim K.
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/browser.php?itemtype=designer
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John McLaren
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what is this link for? Are YOU listed?
 
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John McLaren
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thirts wrote:
I've never made a car but if a bought one that was poorly made/designed I'd be a bit pissed

Okay but would you publicly Threaten the company owner with bodily harm?

I did not say it was wrong to be upset, I said it was unreasonable to continue to bash and threaten bodily harm to a creator.

I would not buy that company's cars ever again!
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Warren Forrest
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I've never made a movie, but "Alone in the Dark" is still the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen.

I've also never written a philosophy text, but your argument is still invalid.
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Lajos
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You don't need to design games to judge games. You need to play them.
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Dave Lartigue
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I have eaten some Netrunner counters, a treasure token from Nemo's War, and a First Martians condition token. Also maybe a Fallout "L" token.
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This one time I was getting on a plane to fly somewhere and I noticed that the wing was only being held on by two band-aids and a post-it note and when I pointed this out to the flight crew they were all like "So how many airplanes have you built?" and I thought, "That’s a good point I haven't built any so I guess I have no room to complain" so I got on the plane and then the wing fell off and the plane crashed and I died.
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Christopher Rao
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Q:When I say "lawyer" what pops into your head? A:Someone who designs games about penguins." - Dormammu
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I think the issue is more one of civility than experience.

As I see it, it's not that one has no right to critique a bad game (or movie, or book, etc.) but that it may be wise to understand just how hard it is to make a decent game before trashing someone who has tried, and perhaps not succeeded.

On the one hand, it is undoubtedly easier to critique than it is to build (just ask Karl Marx, if you could!). And while there may be a right to free speech, that doesn't mean you need to be thoughtless or stupid about what you say.

On the other hand, good, thorough criticism has a number of benefits:

1) Save people time and money that they were going to waste on bad products;
2) Help develop house rules that could rescue bad games or could make a good game great;
3) Help refine our collective notion of what's good and what stinks.

Compare, for example:
A)"Playing Knizia games, I feel like I'm playing a scoring system, not a game;"
B) "Knizia is so overrated;"
C) "The only reason this piece of crap could ever get published is that Knizia designed it."
D) "Knizia is a bad bad man who has sex with various farm animals."

I personally agree with none of these comments. A, however, is astute, and helps me understand why some people don't appreciate RK as I do. B is just a waste of space, and adds nothing to anyone's understanding. C is unnecessarily rude, and D is, well kinda funny, but you know what I mean.

I don't care if you've invented a game or not, as long as you subscribe to the credo (sing it loud, sing it proud!) of DSSS. That's: Don't Say Stupid (you can fill it in).

Cheers,

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David Brown
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Quote:
Okay but would you publicly Threaten the company owner with bodily harm?

You bet
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Just another Steve
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ToteMan wrote:

Okay but would you publicly Threaten the company owner with bodily harm?

I did not say it was wrong to be upset, I said it was unreasonable to continue to bash and threaten bodily harm to a creator.

Designing and publishing games doesn't give you the right to threaten other game designers or publishers with bodily harm (unless possibly their game is really your game with different colored pawns or something.
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Crypt Keeper
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I'd have to agree with Warren. Your question makes a valid point, but it would be unfair for anyone to answer it. Otherwise only someone who, say, has actually has been President of the United States is qualified to judge whether the current Commander in Chief is doing a good or bad job.

So, by this logic, with the exception of professional game designers, every-one's opinion about whether a game is bad OR GOOD, is invalid. But if you're going to be a professional and expect people to pay for your product, then you have to accept the opinions of your customers.

I agree, however, that a person who threatens assault over a bad game design needs to seek help...fast. But I suspect that most of these are just 12 year-old kids, cackling at their own wit as they lick Cheeto residue off their fingers in the glow of their computer monitors.
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Philip Reed
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mib668 wrote:
Designing and publishing games doesn't give you the right to threaten other game designers or publishers with bodily harm (unless possibly their game is really your game with different colored pawns or something.

It doesn't? Damn. And here I was already working on a list.
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Peter Vrabel
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ToteMan wrote:
I mean threatening bodily harm to a creator whose game you do not like is a bit extreme.

hy·per·bo·le
–noun Rhetoric.
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

In next week's lesson: Sarcasm.
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Just another Steve
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PhilReed wrote:
mib668 wrote:
Designing and publishing games doesn't give you the right to threaten other game designers or publishers with bodily harm (unless possibly their game is really your game with different colored pawns or something.

It doesn't? Damn. And here I was already working on a list.

Well, let's see your list, maybe we'll make an exception.
 
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Chaddyboy
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Have you by any chance been reading Scott Reed's comments on Danger Guy?

If so, a crotch kicking of the designer is indeed in order!
 
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Petras Ražanskas
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ToteMan wrote:
Just wondering of those of you who consistently bash a game or two actually have ever created one from scratch? I find it humorous that people are hard or downright rude to creators, and yet have never produced a game. I mean threatening bodily harm to a creator whose game you do not like is a bit extreme. Just don't buy another title from them.

So I pose the question:

Who here has actually created, produced and sold a game in the game market? meaning it has been distributed by someone other then you or your MOM, family included?

You don't need to be a world-class cook to now that the steak is rotten.
 
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Tim K.
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ToteMan wrote:
what is this link for? Are YOU listed?
No, but those bastards are in there somewhere!
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Cap'n Howdy
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I wouldn't threaten a designer with bodily harm, I'd threaten him with a session of Battle of the Sexes.

Much more damaging.
 
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Hunga Dunga
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ToteMan wrote:
Just wondering of those of you who consistently bash a game or two actually have ever created one from scratch?

This is an incredibly stupid question.

Why?

Because whether or not one has designed a game "from sctratch" is totally orthagonal to one's ability to critique a game.

Quote:
I find it humorous that people are hard or downright rude to creators, and yet have never produced a game.

Laughter is the best medicine, so I'm glad you find this humorous.

Funnier still in that you now seem to suggest that people who haven't designed games should not be rude to those who have.

I don't recall Moses hearing that one from the burning bush.

Quote:
I mean threatening bodily harm to a creator whose game you do not like is a bit extreme. Just don't buy another title from them.

Fortunately we can petition our legal system in order to protect ourselves from people who may be a real threat to us.

This ability to petition is open to people who have designed games, as well as people who have not designed games.

Quote:
So I pose the question:

Who here has actually created, produced and sold a game in the game market? meaning it has been distributed by someone other then you or your MOM, family included?

Now, this is a very different question from the one you initially asked.

BGG has a list of game designers which you can peruse at your leisure.

If this was all you wanted to know, maybe you should have posted this question right up front and dispensed with all the other rigamarole.
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John McLaren
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Gialmere wrote:
I'd have to agree with Warren. Your question makes a valid point, but it would be unfair for anyone to answer it. Otherwise only someone who, say, has actually has been President of the United States is qualified to judge whether the current Commander in Chief is doing a good or bad job.

So, by this logic, with the exception of professional game designers, every-one's opinion about whether a game is bad OR GOOD, is invalid. But if you're going to be a professional and expect people to pay for your product, then you have to accept the opinions of your customers.

I agree, however, that a person who threatens assault over a bad game design needs to seek help...fast. But I suspect that most of these are just 12 year-old kids, cackling at their own wit as they lick Cheeto residue off their fingers in the glow of their computer monitors.

Okay I agree with the 12-yr old mentality that apparently runs these forums. I will not ask a serious question here again. I was hoping for some serious replies as I was designing a game and wanted to know if people on this forum actually created, or just sat on their high horses and mocked others? Well that question HAS been answered.
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SAKURA in KYOTO 2018 Back to Kansai
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Legomancer wrote:
and the plane crashed and I died.

Dave, did you really die?

John, many users here have had a lot of experience playing a lot of diffrent games, and you can bet that many have thought up game ideas and even scribbled stuff down. And then dismissed them because experience shows what does and does not work. Different people like different things in a game, so you have to take everyone's opinion in context.

But you are right. Most people here are no better than 12-year olds. Who have twenty years gaming experience.

My personal favourite is that one does not have to be a chicken to know how to lay an egg.

I bet your game rocks.
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Rob
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ToteMan wrote:
Okay I agree with the 12-yr old mentality that apparently runs these forums. I will not ask a serious question here again. I was hoping for some serious replies as I was designing a game and wanted to know if people on this forum actually created, or just sat on their high horses and mocked others? Well that question HAS been answered.

John, if you wanted a serious answer, then you should have posted a serious question. Or, more precisely, you should have posted it in a more serious, responsible manner. Instead, you opened with a broad, sarcastic comment. And then you tried asking a serious question. So this really looks like the ol' pot/kettle situation.

But I will answer your question seriously. This site has dozens, if not hundreds of active game designers.

Also, I've heard that the website http://www.bgdf.com is excellent place to start.
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Nate Merchant
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ToteMan wrote:
Just wondering of those of you who consistently bash a game or two actually have ever created one from scratch? I find it humorous that people are hard or downright rude to creators, and yet have never produced a game. I mean threatening bodily harm to a creator whose game you do not like is a bit extreme. Just don't buy another title from them.

So I pose the question:

Who here has actually created, produced and sold a game in the game market? meaning it has been distributed by someone other then you or your MOM, family included?

I don't need to have been a President to know ours sucks. I don't need to have been a chef to know when I'm eating bad food. And I don't need to have been a game designer to know when a certain designer is just being lazy and coasting on the hot air from his rabid fans. Whoever that is.
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Barak Engel
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Legomancer wrote:
This one time I was getting on a plane to fly somewhere and I noticed that the wing was only being held on by two band-aids and a post-it note and when I pointed this out to the flight crew they were all like "So how many airplanes have you built?" and I thought, "That’s a good point I haven't built any so I guess I have no room to complain" so I got on the plane and then the wing fell off and the plane crashed and I died.

Normally this would be a GREAT analogy, however...

http://www.whoisthemonkey.com/videos/31f15-flying-with-1-win...

 
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