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Subject: Laborer, Stone Crusher, Boat Builder, 4-viking emigration questions rss

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GAF Blizzard
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Laborer has the following description:
"Each time you use an action space that gives you exactly 2 silver (no more, no less),
you can pay these 2 silver immediately to receive 1 grain and 2 wood (from the
general supply)."


Stone Crusher has the following description:
"In the Actions phase (phase 5) of each round, if you receive at least 1 stone from a
Viking action, you also receive 1 silver. You can only use this effect once per action.
(This effect does not apply to the Bonus phase.)"


Boat Builder has the following description:
"After you play this card, as soon as you have 4 large ships (knarrs and longships),
you receive 2 whaling boats without paying wood or silver (only once via this card).
(You only receive whaling boats for which you have room. The amount of ore in the
longships does not matter.)"


The 4-viking emigration space has the following description:
"Here, you may exchange a whaling boat* for
a knarr (if you wish), before using that knarr
or another large ship to emigrate (more on
emigration on page 17).
* If the whaling boat you exchange has ore
on it, you lose that ore."




1. Laborer triggers if an action's EFFECT results in you getting 2 silver, not just the reward from the board, correct? For example, can you get 2 silver from a mountain tile and trigger Laborer?

2. Does Laborer trigger if you explore an island that gives you exactly 2 silver?

3. Does Laborer trigger if you play an occupation that gives you 2 silver (Milker)?

4. Let's consider if you take 2 silver from a mountain tile and have both Laborer and Stone Crusher. Can you choose to trigger Laborer first because you received exactly 2 silver, then AFTERWARDS trigger Stone Crusher to gain 1 silver?

5. For Boat Builder, I assume it only triggers if the ships are in your harbor, NOT already emigrated?

6. For the 4-viking emigration space, can you turn a whaling boat into a knarr and emigrate it even if your harbor was already full of large ships?
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Points 1-5 all make sense to me.

For point 6, I found this in the rulebook: "The number of ships is not limited. The only limitation is the number of landing stages in your bay: you can only have up to 3 whaling boats and up to 4 large ships (knarrs, longships)."

Technically speaking, if you had 3 whaling boats and 4 large ships already and you chose that 4 viking emigration space, it would imply that you would either:
a) Pay silver to emigrate a large boat
b) Exchange a whaling boat for a knarr, and then immediately use that knarr you exchanged, and pay silver to emigrate.

In case a) you would have 3 whaling boats and 3 large ships. In case b) after completing the action you would have 2 whaling boats and 4 large ships. The ship, in my interpretation, wouldn't count towards your total ship count as you are immediately emigrating it and you aren't storing it for use later.
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GAF Blizzard
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chuckaknuckle wrote:
In case a) you would have 3 whaling boats and 3 large ships. In case b) after completing the action you would have 2 whaling boats and 4 large ships. The ship, in my interpretation, wouldn't count towards your total ship count as you are immediately emigrating it and you aren't storing it for use later.

That's the question, basically. I don't know if it counts towards your harbor limit mid-action.
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alexander stark
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chuckaknuckle wrote:
Points 1-5 all make sense to me.


I agree with this except point 3. The milker is an occupation card, and the Laborer says "action space", so I think you can't active its effect because the silver is received by an occupation card.

Point 6, emigration, I don't know. I think I'll follow that you can't do the exchange, unless we have an official answer.
 
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GAF Blizzard
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alexandermagno wrote:
chuckaknuckle wrote:
Points 1-5 all make sense to me.


I agree with this except point 3. The milker is an occupation card, and the Laborer says "action space", so I think you can't active its effect because the silver is received by an occupation card.

Point 6, emigration, I don't know. I think I'll follow that you can't do the exchange, unless we have an official answer.

About point 3, that's why I asked about the other situations too. Technically an action space might give you a mountain resource. But if it HAPPENS to give you 2 silver as a result, does it trigger?

Another action space might let you play a card (4-viking spaces). If you then get 2 silver either before or after your main action, does it trigger?
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Alex
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Very interesting. Most of this depends on the official ruling regarding 1, doesn't it? In any case, if there's something like a "stack" of actions where they are resolved in any given order, I guess occupation order between two cards would always be up to the player (it would be very cumbersome trying to establish a predefined card order) so your occupations combo would work in any case.

I think, however, that the ruling will tend to "action spaces" meaning "as printed". considering only those actions with the two silver icon and the mountains if you choose the needed resources (which are printed).

Also waiting on the 4-Viking occupation timing

I'd rule that you can't turn a whaling boat into a knarr don't have room in your harbour. That action is sort of well separated in two stages: "evolve" (and its optional) if you can, then emigrate (also optional, actually). Even when the rules may be interpreted as "exchange and emigrate" those are two different effects, so you should be able to complete them individually. And if you want to take them both, you need to do them by order. Similar as with the two action cards.
 
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Dok Indigo
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GAFBlizzard wrote:

Laborer has the following description:
"Each time you use an action space that gives you exactly 2 silver (no more, no less),
you can pay these 2 silver immediately to receive 1 grain and 2 wood (from the
general supply)."


Stone Crusher has the following description:
"In the Actions phase (phase 5) of each round, if you receive at least 1 stone from a
Viking action, you also receive 1 silver. You can only use this effect once per action.
(This effect does not apply to the Bonus phase.)"


Boat Builder has the following description:
"After you play this card, as soon as you have 4 large ships (knarrs and longships),
you receive 2 whaling boats without paying wood or silver (only once via this card).
(You only receive whaling boats for which you have room. The amount of ore in the
longships does not matter.)"


The 4-viking emigration space has the following description:
"Here, you may exchange a whaling boat* for
a knarr (if you wish), before using that knarr
or another large ship to emigrate (more on
emigration on page 17).
* If the whaling boat you exchange has ore
on it, you lose that ore."




1. Laborer triggers if an action's EFFECT results in you getting 2 silver, not just the reward from the board, correct? For example, can you get 2 silver from a mountain tile and trigger Laborer?

2. Does Laborer trigger if you explore an island that gives you exactly 2 silver?

3. Does Laborer trigger if you play an occupation that gives you 2 silver (Milker)?

4. Let's consider if you take 2 silver from a mountain tile and have both Laborer and Stone Crusher. Can you choose to trigger Laborer first because you received exactly 2 silver, then AFTERWARDS trigger Stone Crusher to gain 1 silver?

5. For Boat Builder, I assume it only triggers if the ships are in your harbor, NOT already emigrated?

6. For the 4-viking emigration space, can you turn a whaling boat into a knarr and emigrate it even if your harbor was already full of large ships?


Uhh, nice questions. My turn on it:

1. Yes. The action is to get a ressource from a mountain strip. That ressources happens to be 2 silver. You just got 2 silver as the effect of an action.

2. Yes.

3. No. The silver is coming from the occupation card.

4. I do think that it does not matter. The cards would trigger simultanously. But the silver from stone crusher comes from an occupation, not from the action. So you still got just 2 silver of the action, triggering labourer.

5. Of course. Emigrated ships are no longer ships.

6. No. You need to place the knarr on one of the 4 large boat spots before emigrating. But you are free to emigrate first and then turn a wahling boat into a knarr. As you are free to choose seperate parts of an action in any order.
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Frank Heeren
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GAFBlizzard wrote:

1. Laborer triggers if an action's EFFECT results in you getting 2 silver, not just the reward from the board, correct? For example, can you get 2 silver from a mountain tile and trigger Laborer?

2. Does Laborer trigger if you explore an island that gives you exactly 2 silver?

3. Does Laborer trigger if you play an occupation that gives you 2 silver (Milker)?

4. Let's consider if you take 2 silver from a mountain tile and have both Laborer and Stone Crusher. Can you choose to trigger Laborer first because you received exactly 2 silver, then AFTERWARDS trigger Stone Crusher to gain 1 silver?

5. For Boat Builder, I assume it only triggers if the ships are in your harbor, NOT already emigrated?

6. For the 4-viking emigration space, can you turn a whaling boat into a knarr and emigrate it even if your harbor was already full of large ships?


1 Yes
2 No*
3 No*
4 Yes
5 Yes
6 Yes

*I would think that you get the silver in this cases only as a side effect and not from the action itself. Actually I have to check this back with Uwe, but I would recommend following my suggestion in the meantime.
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nan3000 wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:

1. Laborer triggers if an action's EFFECT results in you getting 2 silver, not just the reward from the board, correct? For example, can you get 2 silver from a mountain tile and trigger Laborer?

2. Does Laborer trigger if you explore an island that gives you exactly 2 silver?

3. Does Laborer trigger if you play an occupation that gives you 2 silver (Milker)?

4. Let's consider if you take 2 silver from a mountain tile and have both Laborer and Stone Crusher. Can you choose to trigger Laborer first because you received exactly 2 silver, then AFTERWARDS trigger Stone Crusher to gain 1 silver?

5. For Boat Builder, I assume it only triggers if the ships are in your harbor, NOT already emigrated?

6. For the 4-viking emigration space, can you turn a whaling boat into a knarr and emigrate it even if your harbor was already full of large ships?


1 Yes
2 No*
3 No*
4 Yes
5 Yes
6 Yes

*I would think that you get the silver in this cases only as a side effect and not from the action itself. Actually I have to check this back with Uwe, but I would recommend following my suggestion in the meantime.

Thanks! I look forward to hearing what Uwe says about the side silver.
 
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Alex
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Hexendoktor wrote:


The 4-viking emigration space has the following description:
"Here, you may exchange a whaling boat* for
a knarr (if you wish), before using that knarr
or another large ship to emigrate (more on
emigration on page 17).
* If the whaling boat you exchange has ore
on it, you lose that ore."



6. No. You need to place the knarr on one of the 4 large boat spots before emigrating. But you are free to emigrate first and then turn a wahling boat into a knarr. As you are free to choose seperate parts of an action in any order.


My interpretation is moot since we have a ruling now, but I think the rulebook never says that you can choose the parts of the action in any order you want, just that you must fulfill at least one.

Edit: Frank confirmed in another thread that you can choose the order in the mountain/trade actions to get occupation combos, so yes.

In this particular case the rules explicitly say that you must exchange the whaling boat before emigrating. But it seems the new knarr doesn't reach the Barbour until the full action is complete.
 
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Frank Heeren
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nan3000 wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:

1. Laborer triggers if an action's EFFECT results in you getting 2 silver, not just the reward from the board, correct? For example, can you get 2 silver from a mountain tile and trigger Laborer?

2. Does Laborer trigger if you explore an island that gives you exactly 2 silver?

3. Does Laborer trigger if you play an occupation that gives you 2 silver (Milker)?

4. Let's consider if you take 2 silver from a mountain tile and have both Laborer and Stone Crusher. Can you choose to trigger Laborer first because you received exactly 2 silver, then AFTERWARDS trigger Stone Crusher to gain 1 silver?

5. For Boat Builder, I assume it only triggers if the ships are in your harbor, NOT already emigrated?

6. For the 4-viking emigration space, can you turn a whaling boat into a knarr and emigrate it even if your harbor was already full of large ships?


1 Yes
2 No*
3 No*
4 Yes
5 Yes
6 Yes

*I would think that you get the silver in this cases only as a side effect and not from the action itself. Actually I have to check this back with Uwe, but I would recommend following my suggestion in the meantime.


Uwes first reaction to point 2 and 3 was in line with mine, so consider this official.
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nan3000 wrote:
nan3000 wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:

1. Laborer triggers if an action's EFFECT results in you getting 2 silver, not just the reward from the board, correct? For example, can you get 2 silver from a mountain tile and trigger Laborer?

2. Does Laborer trigger if you explore an island that gives you exactly 2 silver?

3. Does Laborer trigger if you play an occupation that gives you 2 silver (Milker)?

4. Let's consider if you take 2 silver from a mountain tile and have both Laborer and Stone Crusher. Can you choose to trigger Laborer first because you received exactly 2 silver, then AFTERWARDS trigger Stone Crusher to gain 1 silver?

5. For Boat Builder, I assume it only triggers if the ships are in your harbor, NOT already emigrated?

6. For the 4-viking emigration space, can you turn a whaling boat into a knarr and emigrate it even if your harbor was already full of large ships?


1 Yes
2 No*
3 No*
4 Yes
5 Yes
6 Yes

*I would think that you get the silver in this cases only as a side effect and not from the action itself. Actually I have to check this back with Uwe, but I would recommend following my suggestion in the meantime.


Uwes first reaction to point 2 and 3 was in line with mine, so consider this official.

Thanks! My general conclusion then is that when a card says "a space gives you exactly WHATEVER", it is referring only to the space and what it directly gives you, including mountain strip silver.

It would not refer to secondary effects from islands and cards, which would make rulings confusing.
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