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Wings of War: Famous Aces» Forums » Rules

Subject: How to Perform "loops" and "wing-overs"? rss

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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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My reference for WWI flying game is almost exclusively with the old flip-book game, Ace of Aces. And I was wondering, how would a player sequence the following: A loop? A wing-over?

I have the system through Burning Drachens and it seems the way to do it is:

LOOP:: Straight > Immelman (climb) > Straight > Stall (dive) > Immelman (Split-S) > Straight.

And a wing-over might be...?

WING-OVER:: Straight > Immelman (climb) > Straight > Left or Right Turn

Is that right?

...and would something like a "Falling Leaf" be impossible to sequence with the manuver cards?
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Jeremy Carlson
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Ok....I just had to do some major searching for a question I personally had.

Your LOOP cannot actually be done in the game, because you have a stall before your second Immelmann card...which is an illegal move. In theory, I get what your are trying, and that would seem right. Just can't be done.

I am not exactly sure what a wing over is, so it would be cool just to have that one explained to me.

The Falling Leaf can be possible if you are using altitude rules.

Non-steep Swerve to the left>Dive Card>Non-steep Swerve to the right
then just repeat that process.
 
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Chris Jachimowicz
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hughthehand wrote:
Your LOOP cannot actually be done in the game, because you have a stall before your second Immelmann card...which is an illegal move. In theory, I get what your are trying, and that would seem right. Just can't be done.

I am not exactly sure what a wing over is, so it would be cool just to have that one explained to me.

The Falling Leaf can be possible if you are using altitude rules.

Non-steep Swerve to the left>Dive Card>Non-steep Swerve to the right
then just repeat that process.


While the rules wouldn't permit the stall for the loop, one could do: straight>Immelman>straight>Immelman>straight.

It's interesting to note that the Immelman is the only manuever in the basic rules that must actually assume an altitude change although it isn't reflected in the game play. As a manuever, it could also be broken down into several component manuevers, one of which would be a stall or "nose up," another being a roll. If you want that kind of detail, play "Hostile Aircraft."

IIRC, a "Wingover" was a sharp turn left or right that turned the plan approx 200 degrees (in AoA) and dropped altitude at the same time. In other words, the plane stood on its wingtip and turned around. The rotary engines gave a distinct advantage when turning in the direction the motor spun.

I would think that the Falling Leaf could be approximated in the basic game just by doing alternating left and right swerves.

What I miss in WoW is the "Sideslip" a manuever that allowed you to cut left or right while still keeping your guns trained on a target directly in front of you. It was always good for avoiding the Immelman, which turned the target plane directly back at you!

Chris J.
 
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Ted Groth
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Actually the sequence for the loop looks OK to me, if you use some of the optional altitude rules, that were not included in the original box. The stall indicates that the 2nd Immelmann is actually a Split S.

Falling leaf would actually look like a series of steep swerves left and right, losing altitude each time, without the extra forward motion of the dive card. This isn't possible within the rules, but would be a great house rule. (2nd and subsequent steep swerve would cause loss of a small step in altitude)

Wingover is when one wing stalls, and loses lift, allowing a very sharp turn. No special way to indicate this in Wings of War, other than the sharper turns available to more maneuverable planes.

But keep in mind, I have never been a pilot
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Jeremy Carlson
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Chris, since you seem to know something about this stuff, got another question for you.

I have been doing some reading on WWI dogfighting, and about WoW:FA, is the Immelmann in WWI the same as it is now?

I have read that the original Immelmann was a climb, and then just before stall, you snapped the rudder left or right to stand the plane on its head and spun coming down.

The pictures I have seen though, are a half loop, and at the top you spin the plane back right side up.

 
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David Turner
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hughthehand wrote:
Chris, since you seem to know something about this stuff, got another question for you.

I have been doing some reading on WWI dogfighting, and about WoW:FA, is the Immelmann in WWI the same as it is now?

I have read that the original Immelmann was a climb, and then just before stall, you snapped the rudder left or right to stand the plane on its head and spun coming down.

The pictures I have seen though, are a half loop, and at the top you spin the plane back right side up.



You would think this would depicted better
stall - Immelmann - Straight

not sure
 
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Chris Jachimowicz
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hughthehand wrote:
Chris, since you seem to know something about this stuff, got another question for you.

I have been doing some reading on WWI dogfighting, and about WoW:FA, is the Immelmann in WWI the same as it is now?

I have read that the original Immelmann was a climb, and then just before stall, you snapped the rudder left or right to stand the plane on its head and spun coming down.

The pictures I have seen though, are a half loop, and at the top you spin the plane back right side up.



I am by no means an expert, so I can only speak from my experience with AoA, HA and WoW. You might be confusing an Immelman and a Renversement. In HA, the Immelman is a "nose up" of 100' + a half loop + a roll. The Renversement is a nose up of 50' + a stall turn. You lose significantly more speed with the Immelman than the Renversement(with which you might actually gain speed!), but you don't lose altitude with the Immelman, you do with the Renversement. Both turn you 180 degrees.

Back to Loops: The biggest difference between a true loop and two consecutive Immelmans is that there is no Roll in the loop at the top of the arc.

BTW, for WoW players looking for more scenarios, there was a Hostile Aircraft "Offensive Patrol O.P." source book released in 1997. It includes 104 historical scenarios from all fronts. A great resource.

Chris J.
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Bob Roberts

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Wiki actually gets one right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn
 
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