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Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » Rules

Subject: Did I spawn this phase correctly? rss

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Brian Smith
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This came up in our last game and caused some... ummmm... heated discussion.

Zombie's Phase - Step2 - Spawn (three active spawn zones)

Spawn Zone #1 - Drew one card: Double spawn card. No zombies.
Spawn Zone #2 - Drew two cards: Double spawn card plus Necromancer.

--- Interrupt Spawn for Necromancer Spawn---

Necromancer draws a double spawn. Drew two more cards. One zombie, two fatties. Place them both in the Necromancer zone.

Spawn Zone #3 - Resolved previous zone's double spawn by drawing two cards. 1 Fatty and 3 runners. Put them both in zone 3.

-----------------------------------------------------

Am I doing this correctly? I assume the Necromancer spawn temporarily acts as its own zone out of the flow when it is initially populated. Am I correct? Or should I have sent BOTH spawn cards in step two to zone #3 and drawn 4 spawn cards?

Thanks for your input!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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You are correct.
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Eric T
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Yes , that was correct.
 
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Brian Smith
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Jorgen,

I'm still a little unclear on exactly how this works.

If during a building and/or end phase spawn a necromancer spawn card is drawn you pause immediately and draw a card for the necromancer zone. If you draw a double span card for the necromancer zone the card would NOT move forward to the next zone. The double spawn card would be resolved in the Necromancer's zone only. If you drew another double span card in a row then you would draw four span cards in the necromancer zone... and so on.

Is this correct?

I thought that the official rules clarification thread on here stated that when you draw a necromancer spawn card during the end phase you draw the one spawn card for the necromancer zone and if its a double spawn it would move ahead to the next zone?

Adding to my confusion the rules don't state anything about finishing the spawn in the Necromancer's zone first. All they say is "then, immediately resolve a regular zombie spawn for it."

Sorry for the confusion. I really appreciate your help!



 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
Jorgen,

I'm still a little unclear on exactly how this works.

If during a building and/or end phase spawn a necromancer spawn card is drawn you pause immediately and draw a card for the necromancer zone. If you draw a double span card for the necromancer zone the card would NOT move forward to the next zone. The double spawn card would be resolved in the Necromancer's zone only.

This is all correct.

Quote:
If you drew another double span card in a row then you would draw four span cards in the necromancer zone... and so on.

Is this correct?

That part has a mistake. If you drew only one Double Spawn in that set, there would only be two further cards drawn due to it. You would need both to be Double Spawns to draw 4 cards in the Zone.

In other words, what you described was:

Step 1 (1 card): Necromancer Spawn - Place Necromancer and Spawn Token and draw one new card
Step 2 (1 card): Double Spawn - Draw two new cards
Step 3 (2 cards): 1 Double Spawn and 1 Zombies Spawn - Place Zombies and draw two new cards
Step 4 (2 cards): 2 Zombies Spawns - Place Zombies

If Step 3 had instead had 2 Double Spawn cards, then you would be drawing 4 cards in Step 4.

Quote:
I thought that the official rules clarification thread on here stated that when you draw a necromancer spawn card during the end phase you draw the one spawn card for the necromancer zone and if its a double spawn it would move ahead to the next zone?

We have not had an official ruling on that. What we have had a ruling on is that in future End Phase spawns, it will act like that. We have also had official clarification that building Necromancer spawns are their own separate entity outside the building spawn. It thus makes sense that End Phase Necromancer spawns should be treated the same way.

Quote:
Adding to my confusion the rules don't state anything about finishing the spawn in the Necromancer's zone first. All they say is "then, immediately resolve a regular zombie spawn for it."

This is a confusion I saw immediately when reading the rules and there are several threads where we discussed different methods for quite a while at launch. When we received the official ruling for Necromancers spawning in buildings, the rest of the rules fell into place as the only ones that made sense that were also consistent.
 
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Brian Smith
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Got it! I was doing it correctly then.

The rule is actually simple.

1. Draw a necromancer card.
2. Place the mini and spawn zone on the board.
3. Draw one spawn card for the necromancer's spawn zone.
4. If the card is a double span draw two more spawn cards.
5. Resolve the two span cards in the necromancer's zone.
6. Once the necromancer's spawn is completed continue to spawn the rest of the rooms or spawn zones as normal.
7. Next round the necromancer's spawn zone will act as a normal spawn zone for spawning purposes.

Thanks again for all your help!
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Yep, you got it.
 
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Brian Smith
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I have another spawn question. Again, 90% sure I am correct but wanted to check as this spawn killed 3 survivors.

4 active spawn points on board.

Drew one walker spawn card for each spawn zone, however, we were out of walkers. As a result, all walkers received 4 activations. We played this correctly, no?

Another question popped up during the game. Can a necromancer escape to an inactive spawn zone? For example, a green span zone that has not yet activated because the quest requisites have not yet been met.

 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
I have another spawn question. Again, 90% sure I am correct but wanted to check as this spawn killed 3 survivors.

4 active spawn points on board.

Drew one walker spawn card for each spawn zone, however, we were out of walkers. As a result, all walkers received 4 activations. We played this correctly, no?

Yes.

Quote:
Another question popped up during the game. Can a necromancer escape to an inactive spawn zone? For example, a green span zone that has not yet activated because the quest requisites have not yet been met.


Yes.
 
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Brian Smith
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Not trying to make things complicated but before our discussion I emailed CMON. I thought you might be interested in their response. According to CMON, if I understand them correctly, when the necromancer spawns a double spawn card DOES move forward to the next zone. This applies to both room spawns and end game spawns.

According to them when you draw the necromancer card you draw one spawn card and if its a double span you move forward to the next zone. You don't resolve all cards on the necromancer spawn point initially.

Does this information contradict an earlier response and/or position?


Here is the conversation:

ME:

If you draw a necromancer spawn card you put down a necromancer mini and a necromancer spawn zone. You then immediately draw a card for the necromancer spawn zone only. If you draw a double span the double spawn would be resolved in the necromancer’s zone. The double spawn would NOT move ahead to the next room or regular spawn zone.
Basically you resolve all spawn cards (including double spawn cards) in the necromancer’s zone first only then do you continue on. Going forward the necromancer’s zone is considered a regular spawn zone for spawn purposes.
Am I doing this correctly?

CMON:

If you draw a Necromancer Zombie card, then a Double Spawn, the Double Spawn is resolved in the next Spawn Zone (if the Necromancer appears during Spawn Step) or next building Zone (if the Necromancer appears while spawning in a building).

ME:

I think I understand.

My understanding is that when you draw a necromancer spawn card the flow stops and the necromancer spawn is resolved until finished. In other words if you draw a necromancer spawn card you then draw another spawn card to populate the necromancer’s new spawn point. If a double span is drawn it would stay in the necromancers spawn zone until spawning is complete. You would then draw to more cards for the necromancers zone and resolve them in the necromancers zone.

Am I correct?

ME (sent another email):

Perhaps here is a better way of wording the question:
When you draw a necromancer card you then draw an extra spawn card for the necromancer’s new spawn zone. If the card is a double spawn does it stay in the necromancer’s zone or move on to the next zone?
My understanding is the double spawn would not move forward in this case. The double span would remain in the necromancer spawn zone until resolved.

Hope this makes better sense.


CMON:

If you draw a Necromancer Zombie card and then a Double Spawn:

- if the Necromancer appears during Spawn Step: the Double Spawn is resolved in the next Spawn Zone
- if the Necromancer appears while spawning in a building: the Double Spawn is resolved in the next building Zone





 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
Does this information contradict an earlier response and/or position?

Yes and no... The previous rulings we had were:

Guillotine Games wrote:
(Q3) Supposing I open a 2 rooms building door, how would I resolve the
spawns if the zombie cards I'll draw will be (in this order): double spawn,
necromancer, double spawn x4 then just walkers/runners/fatties.
(A3)
(a) double spawn : no zombie here, two cards in the next zone.
(b) necromancer + double spawn
- first, put a necromancer and a spawn zone. Draw a card for the spawn zone
: you get a double spawn.
From now on, resolve the double spawns, one after the other.

and
Guillotine Games wrote:
(Q6) How to deal with the Necromancer SPawn token when you have to cycle through the Building spawn : is it counted or excluded when resolving Double Spawn cards ?
(A6) The Spawn token is excluded, players are resolving a Building Spawn, not an end turn spawn.


The only way these two rulings made sense seemed to be that the Necromancer Spawn Token was its own contained Spawn, not part of the building Spawn. If you were to resolve the Double Spawns in further rooms, you would have the very odd situation that it is part of the building spawn sequence when the Necromancer Spawn is drawn (as you are delaying the Double Spawn to the next Zone), yet it is not part of the Spawn sequence if there is wrap-around within the building. It makes very little sense for it to be both part of the sequence and not part of it at different points during the sequence.

Now we have the new ruling you have supplied which breaks the above conclusion apart.

Thus, the official rulings now do include the Necromancer Spawn Token as part of the sequence in the initial pass only. This is really inconsistent and somewhat confusing, but that's been the norm for a lot of rulings we have received lately.

Edit: I think the resolution I may take out of it is to go back to just including the Necromancer token in the building sequence and house rule to ignore the earlier ruling that you don't spawn at it again if there is a second pass. Second passes are somewhat rare anyway, so it barely affects anything.

I really just wish the question had been properly answered in the first place so we didn't have to change things up now.
 
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Brian Smith
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Reading the quotes your posted and my recent email exchange my conclusion is there is no conclusion. The forum posts and the email are contradictory. Questions 3 above, IMO, can be interpreted in several ways and did little to add clarity.

Based on the replies I think the intent is to have the double spawn move forward and the spawn point is part of the rotation.

I'll ask one more time. Am I perhaps better of going to GG directly? Is that possible? Do they have a site and take inquiries from customers? Or is CMON the best way to go?


 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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CMON is probably best. They purchased GG between the time the original questions were asked and now. There is also a language barrier when questioning GG, as they seem to prefer answering questions in French.
 
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Brian Smith
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Got it.

So, based on what we know, if you want to spawn "officially" I believe it works like this:

During the end phase zombie spawn:

If you draw a necromancer card and then a double spawn card for the necromancer's spawn zone the double spawn would carry forward to the next zone. In this case, no zombies would be spawned on the Necromancer's spawn zone. Going forward the necromancer's spawn is part of normal rotation.

During a room spawn:

If you draw a necromancer's spawn card during a room spawn you draw one card immediately for the necromancer's spawn point. If you draw a double span card at this point the double span moves ahead to the next building zone. If subsequent double spawns are drawn the necromancer's spawn zone is NOT counted in the rotation.

This makes sense to me. Sound right to you Jorgen?
 
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Brian Smith
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Clipper wrote:
I really just wish the question had been properly answered in the first place so we didn't have to change things up now.


I concur. Really what needs to happen is the official rule books needs to be updated and clarified. I'm just talking about the basic set rules. I can't imagine what contradictions and confusion additional sets bring!

Off the top of my head:

1. End phase and building spawns with necromancer's.
2. Iron Hide skill.
3. Invisibility enchantment.

 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Yeah. In other words, in a two-room building, the following seems to indicate a valid pattern according to all official responses:

Room A: Draw one card - Necromancer Spawn
Room A Necro: Draw one card - Double Spawn
Room B: Draw two cards - Double Spawn + Normal Spawn
Room A: Draw two cards - Double Spawn + Normal Spawn
Room B (ignore Room A Necro): Draw two cards - 2 Normal Spawns

There is one other case which we don't know the official viewpoint on, though. Specifically, during a two-room building spawn:

Room A: Draw one card - Double Spawn
Room B: Draw two cards - Necromancer Spawn and Double Spawn
Room B Necro: Draw one or two cards? - Normal Spawn/s

I would draw two and this would end the building spawn sequence, but the way the first example skips the Necro Spawn means I don't know for sure. It might be that the Double Spawn is held over into Room A.

For complete disclosure, the way I house rule the first example is:
Room A: Draw one card - Necromancer Spawn
Room A Necro: Draw one card - Double Spawn
Room B: Draw two cards - Double Spawn + Normal Spawn
Room A: Draw two cards - Double Spawn + Normal Spawn
Room A Necro: Draw two cards - 2 Normal Spawns

This makes things much more consistent and easy to resolve.
 
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Brian Smith
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<<For complete disclosure, the way I house rule the first example is:
Room A: Draw >>

So your house rule is to include the necromancer spawn in the rotation after being spawned in a room, correct? I don't think it makes a massive difference, especially in a two room zone.

<< Room A: Draw >>

I believe it would go this way:

Room A: Draw on card. A double spawn.
Room B: Draw two cards, a necromancer spawn and double spawn.
Room B: The necromancer draws one card, a normal spawn.
Room A: Draw two spawn cards (carryover from Room B double spawn card.

I don't think you draw two cards for both the necromancer and the normal room spawn. The double spawn part is the necromancer and another card.



 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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So that would be a reason why I think the official rules are really unclear. In your case, the Double Spawn from the Necromancer Spawn is rolling over to the next room, but the Double Spawn from a prior room is not rolling over to the Necromancer Spawn, even in the first pass. It is could both be included in the sequence and ignored at the same time now!

Quote:
I don't think you draw two cards for both the necromancer and the normal room spawn. The double spawn part is the necromancer and another card.

Oh, I agree there. I am just applying the second Double Spawn to the next part of the sequence, which has become the Necromancer Spawn. It would not be applied to the following room as well.

 
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Chuck Hurd
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Ask again next week and you'll get a third answer. It makes little sense to me to try to reconcile GG's answer with CMON's. There does not appear to any collaboration there, nor does there seem to be collaboration even within GG, as we have seen in prior contradictory "clarifications". Choose one or the other I guess and go with it.

What we do is, when it comes up, hold the Necro token until all the other spawn is resolved, then go back and resolve the spawn just for the Necro token. Neat. Simple. And for us, very thematic that the Necro comes with his own entourage.
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Brian Smith
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This is confusing ;-)

In my example above the Necromancer did not draw a double span card. Just a normal card.

Here is how I see the official rules playing out in two scenarios:

Scenario 1

Room A: Double span (nothing here,spawn moves to next room).
Room B: Card one is a necromancer. Draw a spawn card. He gets a normal spawn. Place the zombies on his spawn token. Now resolve the 2nd card that carried on from the 1st room. You draw a double spawn.
Room A: Your draw two cards (as a result of the second card drawn in Room B). Both normal spawns. Place them in Room A.

Scenario 2

Room A: Double span (nothing here,spawn moves to next room).
Room B: Draw 2 cards. The first card drawn is a Nercromancer. You draw one card for the necromancer. You draw a double spawn. This spawn will move forward to Room A. You now draw card #2. Card #2 is a double span as well. This also moves forward.
Room A: You draw 4 cards. Two from the Necromancer's earlier double span and two more for the regular room spawn in Room B. Resolve all 4 cards as normal.

I hope this makes sense. It's confusing trying to type the order up and have it make sense!
 
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Brian Smith
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I think an easy way of looking at it is to remember that a double spawn always move forward to the next spawn zone or room. If you draw a necromancer and for his spawn a double span card, move the double span to the next spawn zone.

Trying to decode GG/CMONs cryptic responses I don't think there is much evidence that would point to doing separate, contained spawns for the necromancer and, once resolved, moving on. Obviously, if your house rule it that way that's fine.

Sadly, one post, blog, or email from GG with two or three examples could easily clear this up.

Personally, I'm going to go with double spawn cards always move to the next zone when drawing the necromancer.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
Room B: Card one is a necromancer. Draw a spawn card. He gets a normal spawn. Place the zombies on his spawn token. Now resolve the 2nd card that carried on from the 1st room. You draw a double spawn.

This is why we differ; you're doing things in the wrong order. When drawing cards in a multiple Spawn, you draw them all at the same time and then resolve them in the order drawn:

Z:BP Rules - Double Spawn wrote:
These Zombie cards are
drawn together and resolved in drawing order. If one of them
is another Double Spawn card, resolve the standard Spawn
card first, then the Double Spawn card.


So you can argue that you know about the Necromancer Spawn and it is the next Zone that the Double Spawn will hit.

That is why I have the Double Spawn resolve in the Necromancer's Zone. It has been inserted in the sequence and is the next Zone to draw from.

Edit: One more fun example to ponder....

Room A: One card - Double Spawn
Room B: Two cards - Two different Necromancer Spawns
Room B Necro 1: One card - Double Spawn
Room B Necro 2: ????

My method clearly makes the Necro 2 Spawn two cards and then you continue on from there (Doubles at Necro 2 would be resolved in Room A).
 
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Brian Smith
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OK. So I was doing it wrong.

Basically here's my confusion. What happens when you draw a double spawn card in zone 1 and then a necromancer spawn card + double spawn card in Zone 2? How exactly does this work? How many cards do I draw and in which zone?

What happens if you draw a Necromancer spawn card in zone two and a double spawn AND THEN draw another double spawn for the nercromancer's spawn?

If you could post a few step by step examples maybe that would help me out?

I'm lost at the moment!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Bghead8che wrote:
OK. So I was doing it wrong.

Basically here's my confusion. What happens when you draw a double spawn card in zone 1 and then a necromancer spawn card + double spawn card in Zone 2? How exactly does this work? How many cards do I draw and in which zone?

Isn't this the example we just discussed earlier? By my reckoning, the Double Spawn is resolved on the Necromancer's Spawn token, so you draw two for it. That's what happens when you simply inserted the Spawn Token into the sequence.

It will look like this:
Zone 1: 1 card - Double Spawn
Zone 2: 2 cards - Necromancer (insert into sequence) + Double Spawn
Zone 2 Necro: 2 cards - Normal Spawns

End Result: Nothing in Zone 1, Necromancer and 2 Spawns in Zone 2.

Quote:
What happens if you draw a Necromancer spawn card in zone two and a double spawn AND THEN draw another double spawn for the nercromancer's spawn?

If I understand you correctly, this is the process you are describing and my method of handling it:
Zone 1: 1 card - Double Spawn
Zone 2: 2 cards - Necromancer (insert into sequence) + Double Spawn
Zone 2 Necro: 2 cards - Normal Spawn + Double Spawn
Zone 1: 2 cards - Normal Spawns

End Result: 2 Spawns in Zone 1, Necromancer and 1 Spawn in Zone 2.
 
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Brian Smith
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I see what you are doing. You are applying the double spawn card to the Necromancer's spawn.

I have no clue how to spawn officially but this is how I interpret their rules.

If you draw a double spawn on the first zone place nothing in zone 1 and move to zone two. For zone 2 you draw two cards, a necromancer and a double spawn. You then set aside the double spawn and draw an extra card for the necromancer. You draw another double spawn. Both the necromancer's doubles spawn and the initial double spawn now move back to zone 1.

In zone one you now draw 4 cards and proceed. If you had drawn a regular spawn card for the necromancer's spawn then only the one double spawn would move forward.

The rules say to "resolve the standard spawn card first, then the double span card." When a necromancer is drawn "immediately resolve a regular zombie spawn". As a result I see both double spawn card(s)as moving forward to the next zone.
 
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