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Subject: Is Dark Souls Boardgame a Light KDM? rss

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Jan Big
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I just can't help drawing comparisons. Dark Souls seems to have a very similar combat mechanic, AI Decks and exploration. Is it worth getting this if you already own Kingdom Death?
 
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C M
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That would be any interesting question to ask in around 7 months.
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ぶる ぶるっ
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Night fell and the hours dragged on, but still we murmured to each other of the King and the Pallid Mask, and midnight sounded from the misty spires in the fog-wrapped city.
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I asked myself the same question during the DS KS campaign and got a respunding "no" for an answer. This sort of question is extremely subiective, however, and I guess a lot of it comes down to how much you love IP, or hate assembling minis and bookkeeping etc.
 
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Krzysztof RabidBlackDog
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That was the same question I've asked myself when I learned about Dark Souls kickstarter, and answered it "no, I don't need it".
Anothewr thing is: are you a big fan of digital game series? I'm not, so it was easier for me.
 
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Nerds call me
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From what I saw of the KS campaign, Dark Souls seemed more similar to Shadows of Brimstone than Kingdom Death. I think KDM is pretty unique for the time being in that it presents campaign play with a strong narrative element.
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Jay W
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Doesn't seem to me that DS has any of the persistent campaign elements that make KDM what it is. The boss fights seem less involved as well.
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Thomas Patrick
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I own Kingdom Death: Monster and all its content expansions (quite a few of the resin figures as well) and backed Dark Souls for everything they offered (just finalized that this morning through Backerkit, actually). I don't think one precludes the other and don't think they look very similar outside of a few things.
 
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Drew Olds
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Dark Souls: The Board Game is definitely inspired in part by Kingdom Death: Monster.

It seems more like a normal dungeon crawler with KDM elements rather than a KDM killer. It actually seems to have a lot of elements from Super Dungeon Explore- you play a group of heroes delving into a dungeon in search of a mini boss and a boss, for example.

Honestly, it doesn't seem particularly lite to me. It is not primarily a campaign game (they've talked about maybe adding a campaign, as I recall).


It does pride itself on difficulty (like KDM) and use AI decks for the boss actions (also like KDM). The demo at Gencon looked similar to the KDM demo, and the minis can most closely be compared to KDM minis.

The leveling up seems to happen all in one dungeon (like SDE or Zombicide) and there are tons of minion level monsters for you to kill on the way (like SDE).


All in all, I think that a person could own both games and not feel they're redundant (in as much as your whole gaming shelf seems redundant now that you only play KDM...)
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Hugh Jorgan
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I pledged for a copy of Darklight: Memento Mori as my KD alternative.
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Lonny x
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I'm a pretty big Souls fan. I dropped out of the KS because they game seems like zombiecide more than KDM. The only similarities between DS and KDM is the AI deck but even that is watered down. In DS defense though it makes sense to be able to remember the AI and move sets. I'm not sure how fun that would be after a few plays. There isn't a campaign mode or anything to build upon either. That is a huge drawback for me.
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Krzysztof RabidBlackDog
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Had similar feelings. Gameplay looked bland and boring to me.
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Panwuan Panwuan
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DS KS has massive red flags. I love the DS series but this doesnt seems like a ok-ish game at best. I would rather keep inversting in KDM.

DS bossfights seems like a lightweight (reeeaally light) version of KDM bossfights, but that all. There seems like hardly any gear management as KDM settlement. Character progression seems also moderately mediocre compared vs settlement progression of KDM.

Hunt and Settlement balance out the bossfights for an inmersive game. DS is mainly boss and somewhat "hunt" exploration for resource gathering.

My guts tell me it will try to be a KDM light and fail either being a cakewalk or too difficult. I dont think this game will be playested if at all, as the shipping dates are too aggressive to have any meaningful tweaking (But surely they will end up delivering late anyways, but still not deliver a finetuned game.

The creators seems well intentioned but bit too much to swallow.
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Christian Koch
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I really like the DS digital games, so I late backed the board game and I'm excited to get it next Spring.
According the game play: there will be a live stream on twitch on Nov 25, 6pm GMT (as seen on kickstarter backup 83): https://www.twitch.tv/steamforged where the staff plays from a bonfire to a mini boss.
Furthermore there is an interesting collection of information in the Dark Souls Section of BGG made by Ramsar:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1666984/collected-rule-snip...
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ArtSchool
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odinsgrandson wrote:
Dark Souls: The Board Game is definitely inspired in part by Kingdom Death: Monster.

It seems more like a normal dungeon crawler with KDM elements rather than a KDM killer. It actually seems to have a lot of elements from Super Dungeon Explore- you play a group of heroes delving into a dungeon in search of a mini boss and a boss, for example.

Honestly, it doesn't seem particularly lite to me. It is not primarily a campaign game (they've talked about maybe adding a campaign, as I recall).


It does pride itself on difficulty (like KDM) and use AI decks for the boss actions (also like KDM). The demo at Gencon looked similar to the KDM demo, and the minis can most closely be compared to KDM minis.

The leveling up seems to happen all in one dungeon (like SDE or Zombicide) and there are tons of minion level monsters for you to kill on the way (like SDE).


All in all, I think that a person could own both games and not feel they're redundant (in as much as your whole gaming shelf seems redundant now that you only play KDM...)


"KDM Killer"? Sorry but I couldn't refrain from LOLing. Have you seen the DS "AI Decks" compared to KDM's? Have you seen the "campaign" it comes with, compared to the inmense and gorgeous KDM non-linear narrative? And all the settlement management fase...TBH, DS is very, very far away from the KDM experience.

 
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ArtSchool
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hwknight wrote:
I pledged for a copy of Darklight: Memento Mori as my KD alternative.


Well, I dropped the DL:MM EB pledge I had to save some money to get the core KDM game at the shop. Maybe DL:MM borrows some ideas (like the settlements you could visit out of the dungeon, which btw were completely underdeveloped by the time the DL KS campaign ended). But for one, KDM is not a dungeon crawler. You won't face hordes of bunched up minis in small rooms. I would say DL:MM draws more inspiration gameplaywise from other classic crawlers like HQ.

 
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Quiarcus
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I did a £1 pledge of DS originally and am currently debating whether to upgrade to a full pledge or skip this one. I've fully backed Massive Darkness as I should be able to play that with my 6 year old (she does wonders in Z: Black Plague), and then of course there is the KDM reprint just around the corner. Really not sure that I need another Dungeon Crawler.

And that's all it appears to be - a dungeon crawler with minimal loot and experience options. As someone else mentioned, it feels very much like a grimdark SDE with a few heroes going after a boss or two. The game length also has me concerned. I can see it being over either very quickly, or else outstaying its welcome with the respawning bad guys.

Just don't know at present.
 
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IA Seldon
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Is it KDM Light? Dunno. Would I get it? Nope. I have Dark Souls 1 and 3 on my xbox, and KDM on my table. Why the hell would I need a Dark Souls game on my table? Play Dark Souls as it was meant to be played: on the computer or the console. The game just sounds like a quickly put-together IP to cash in in the Dark Souls craze when DS3 came out.
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Shawn barnes
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Echoing what others have already said. I don't think they're comparable whatsoever other than perhaps in theme. I think SFG saw how successful KDM was, tried to replicate it with a DS IP, and ended up with something more along the lines of (what looks to be) a somewhat lighter Super Dungeon Explore. So far I have a hard time believe that DS will be nearly as difficult as the video games or how they've portrayed it, but I could be wrong.
 
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Drew Olds
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To be fair, I don't think that Steamforge wanted to make Kingdom Death. I think they just saw the AI decks and thought "Brilliant." Then added the mechanic into their dungeon crawler.

The mechanic is inspired by KDM, but the game isn't trying to do the same thing.


Shu1984 wrote:
I would say DL:MM draws more inspiration gameplaywise from other classic crawlers like HQ.



As I recall, they cited Warhammer Quest as an inspiration.

I'd expect the settlement stuff to be more like visiting a town in old whq.
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Maxim Steshenko
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No. While the answer itself might be subjective, I'll try to elaborate why Dark Souls: The Board Game can't be treated as light version, or in fact as any version, of Kingdom Death: Monster.

What has been known so far about rules points out that DSBG is plotless toolkit for dungeon crawling. This is key moment, because KDM is built around long-term campaign with a lot of progression here and there.

DSBG combat and "exploration" supports very basic dungeoneering loop. Combat mechanic in DSBG might be slightly better then two-step attack from KDM, but at this point Conan has already offered better and more elegant implementation of the same ideas. "Exploration" boils down to wandering from one random tile to another, which looks rudimentary comparing to Sword & Sorcery or Gloomhaven (I'm not even saying about The 7th Continent). While KDM also has no direct exploration during Showdown, various events during Hunting phase substitutes that.

Note: Since I pay to developers and not to fans, I ignore any arguments that DSBG would get a lot of campaigns from the community. It will, but as a product it still would be a toolkit.

The boss fighting design is truly subjective here. DSBG uses straightforward AI deck, which moves a boss around the board and perform attacks. KDM uses more intricate system, where a boss has various states and dynamically responses to attacks using Hit Location Deck. So, this aspect kinda light... I think. But between boss fights, DSBG obligates you to fight regular enemies and wander around, just like in typical dungeon crawlers.

In my mind, Kingdom Death: Light above all needs a decent campaign or at least a vast scenario generator, long-term (but not necessarily complex) progression system for a community or a place, and resource management to maintain this progression. Because that what sets KDM apart.
And DSBG is a safe bet, aimed for mass market and advertised as quick one-shot plays. It has very little in common with strong traits of Dark Souls IP. But I digressed...

I hope this helps.
 
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Derek Columbus
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Dark Souls feels like a more casual KDM game. Having never played either of them I'm using the DS game as a gateway for my gaming party and if they enjoy it I will be breaking out KDM since I just backed it. My gaming party is mainly casual so I'm taking a risk.
 
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Chengkai Yang
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I'll have to second the opinion that DS is much closer to arcade mode Super Dungeon Explore. It simply has more of a fixed AI deck and some more options for players. Combat wise it does seem to behave the same way, albeit with comparing roll results and other static bonuses. Both also lack much of an overall plot. I don't see my copy of DS seeing much use, especially once SDE:Legends comes out. If you predetermine monsters and heroes you can get a game up and going in under 10 minutes and its a very simple gateway dudes in a corridor game. One other game worth mentioning with a card/dice mechanic that I really enjoy is Fire Team Zero, and wave 2 should be arriving for US in the next 2 weeks.
 
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