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Subject: Best way to play? rss

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Greg Lott
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What expansions are the most popular? What's the best way to play? All the expansions? Just the base game?
 
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Geoff Conn
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5 players, base game. Work your way out from there.
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Pegasus and Fleet Board are the norm. If you have daybreak, certainly use their treachery cards and cylon leader rules. The rest is optional stuff, some of which are very frowned upon in general sense.
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Mindy G
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You will get answers from Use Everything! to Use Nothing! You need to figure out for yourself and your group what works best for you. If you haven't played at all, then yes, start with the Base Game to learn the rules, then start adding things in when you feel the time is right.
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Matt Epp
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SeerMagic wrote:
Pegasus and Fleet Board are the norm. If you have daybreak, certainly use their treachery cards and cylon leader rules. The rest is optional stuff, some of which are very frowned upon in general sense.


THIS! But if you have to pick only one option, I choose the Fleet Board. It's about time pilots mattered.

Sneaky cylons are way more fun. If you have more than one turn as a revealed cylon you're doing it wrong!

Also, play the soundtrack in the background. So Good!
 
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Noel Yap
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1. Play the base game 10-20 times or more. Make sure you've experienced being both a Cylon and a human. If a Cylon, experiment with early reveals and late reveals and even being unrevealed until the end. Also, experience the pain of being a Sleeper Agent (i.e., a Cylon that doesn't turn until Sleeper phase). When you've won several times with both Cylons and humans, you're ready for the next step.

2. Add Pegasus. Go to New Caprica. Play as the new characters. Mix in the old ones. Throw some folks out the airlock or just play Cally and shoot them. Experience the loneliness of a Cylon Leader with a hidden Agenda where no one trusts you.

3. Add Exodus, going to the Ionian Nebula. Visit some Allies. Now the humans have some Personal Goals as well. Or maybe you'll encounter the dreaded Final Five. Definitely play with the Cylon Fleet board to learn how to manage timing your jumps. See how overpowered the CAG role is (or not). Experience the chaos of Crossroads.

4. Add Daybreak, going all the way to Earth. Check out the new ship Demetrius and go on some Missions. Try out the remodeled Colonial One and new Cylon locations. Your Cylon Leader now has Motives instead of an Agenda and now everyone is courting them for their side.

5. After you've gone on this journey, you'll have a better appreciation of what each expansion brings and how all the options work together. Now you can mix and match with the options YOU prefer, the ones YOU think are best for you and your group.
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Krawhitham B
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Play thematically and enjoy the roller coaster.
 
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Bern Harkins
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My group started with a dozen or so plays of the base game.


We added Pegasus, but only played two games with the New Caprica board (fiddly, and not much fun).

The Pegasus board, however, was fun, and became part of our standard game.

And we shuffled in the new skill cards.


A year later we got Exodus, which was a mixed bag, as well.

The Fleet Board was an immediate hit, but in a short period of time, we ralized that Cylons were always revealing early, so they could run the Fleet.
No tension, no suspicion, no lies... fun for the pilots, but not the same game at all; just another tactical ship game, and not a great one. We stopped using the Fleet Board entirely.

The Cylon Leaders were an interesting variant, and were always available as characters in our games, but saw less use as time wore on.

The conficting Loyalties cards added a new layer of misinformation to the primary social deduction game, and are IMHO the best addition to the game of any expansion compnents.

The Ionian Nebula was fiddly and lengthened the game without noticably improving it.

And we shuffled in the new skill cards.


After another year, Daybreak came out.

The Mutineer was a worthy addition to the game, adding complexity without a huge rule set.

The Demetrius was more trouble than it was worth, and unsatisfying in play.

The new Cylon characters were better, comepletely edging out the Exodus versions.

Oh, and the new skill cards? We shuffled them in...


A few months later, one of the players griped, "Are there no Repair cards at all in the Blue deck?"

This sparked a conversation about what a different experience the current game was from the game we'd fallen in love with...

So the next week, we stripped out everything... even the Pegasus and Conflicting Loyalties. And played the baae game. And it's all we've played since.

Your milage may very.

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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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ferris1971 wrote:
What's the best way to play? All the expansions? Just the base game?

Whatever works best with your group. You will have to experiment and adjust (which is part of the fun).

ferris1971 wrote:
What expansions are the most popular?

Hard to say. We use all expansions to Kobol with Cylon Fleet Board and what it brings in, with Cylon Leader Motives when appropriate. (And our Cylons generally don't reveal early.)
 
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Ernest Chua
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A couple of years ago, I answered a similar set of questions here.
 
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ferris1971 wrote:
What expansions are the most popular?
AFAIK, Daybreak is the most popular. It's the most recent one, has more in terms of raw content, and also improved on some of the things that if i didn't know better were probably test beds in the last 2 expansions and the base game itself.

However, Exodus has the CFB, and Pegasus has the extra Qcards and Peggy. And the plastic basestars rank on the lower side as to reasons to get/use Pegasus.

ferris1971 wrote:
What's the best way to play? All the expansions? Just the base game?

If you really want to try the expansions, but can't get regular gaming in (I'd say more than once every 2 months), then just dive into the expansions. By the time you ramp yourself up to that point, it'll be years later, and by then, you run the risk that your BSG group would've dissolved. Also prolonged if you get regular newbies to your group.

Otherwise, go with what the group wants.



oriecat wrote:
You will get answers from Use Everything! to Use Nothing! You need to figure out for yourself and your group what works best for you. If you haven't played at all, then yes, start with the Base Game to learn the rules, then start adding things in when you feel the time is right.
The part in red has even applied to BSG itself! You won't really hear them on the BSG forums because those users really don't hang out here, but those who say BSG is too long, or otherwise flawed in other ways will simply suggest that folks play Shadows Over Camelot, Saboteur, or Werewolf instead.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Eppic wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Pegasus and Fleet Board are the norm. If you have daybreak, certainly use their treachery cards and cylon leader rules. The rest is optional stuff, some of which are very frowned upon in general sense.


THIS! But if you have to pick only one option, I choose the Fleet Board. It's about time pilots mattered.

Sneaky cylons are way more fun. If you have more than one turn as a revealed cylon you're doing it wrong!

Also, play the soundtrack in the background. So Good!


If you're playing with CFB and you're not revealing on turn one and spamming Basestar Bridge, you're doing it wrong. Roll for tracks = stupidly powerful, and that's only half the things you get to do! Add more raiders to the CFB, or damage Galactica if the main board has tons of raiders... yes, this is boring, but it's a great way to win.

The number one thing is to start with the base game and 5 players (6 if you must, with no-sympathizer). See how your group does, whether Cylons win all the time or humans win all the time, and then come back for more recommendations.
 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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InfoCynic wrote:
Eppic wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Pegasus and Fleet Board are the norm. If you have daybreak, certainly use their treachery cards and cylon leader rules. The rest is optional stuff, some of which are very frowned upon in general sense.


THIS! But if you have to pick only one option, I choose the Fleet Board. It's about time pilots mattered.

Sneaky cylons are way more fun. If you have more than one turn as a revealed cylon you're doing it wrong!

Also, play the soundtrack in the background. So Good!


If you're playing with CFB and you're not revealing on turn one and spamming Basestar Bridge, you're doing it wrong. :) Roll for tracks = stupidly powerful, and that's only half the things you get to do! Add more raiders to the CFB, or damage Galactica if the main board has tons of raiders... yes, this is boring, but it's a great way to win.

The number one thing is to start with the base game and 5 players (6 if you must, with no-sympathizer). See how your group does, whether Cylons win all the time or humans win all the time, and then come back for more recommendations.


sounds like a terrible way to play.
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InfoCynic wrote:
yes, this is boring, but it's a great way to win.

It may be more certain way to win in some groups and some setups, but it certainly isn't a great way to win or a great way to play.
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InfoCynic wrote:
Eppic wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Pegasus and Fleet Board are the norm. If you have daybreak, certainly use their treachery cards and cylon leader rules. The rest is optional stuff, some of which are very frowned upon in general sense.


THIS! But if you have to pick only one option, I choose the Fleet Board. It's about time pilots mattered.

Sneaky cylons are way more fun. If you have more than one turn as a revealed cylon you're doing it wrong!

Also, play the soundtrack in the background. So Good!


If you're playing with CFB and you're not revealing on turn one and spamming Basestar Bridge, you're doing it wrong. Roll for tracks = stupidly powerful, and that's only half the things you get to do! Add more raiders to the CFB, or damage Galactica if the main board has tons of raiders... yes, this is boring, but it's a great way to win.
Really? Many keep saying how as soon as all cylons are revealed, you don't have any inefficiencies amongst humans, no mistrust, and can freely XO each other. Even with the CFB.
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Kwijiboe
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The best way to play is the Base Game in my opinion.

The one thing that EVERY expansion gets wrong is the characters. Each of the base game characters interact and control one another. Worse, in my opinion, each expansion pushes the game further away from the theme of control.

The base game is ALL about control. Every single base game character interacts with either the other base game characters or the three control-oriented base game locations (Admin, Admiral's Quarters and Brig).

There are also fewer available shortcuts for players to bypass the base game's core control mechanisms: The Presidency's 2 Arrest Orders and singular Presidential Pardon are the only way to cheat the brig and admirals quarters locations, but the Presidency can be controlled via the Admin location or the Admiralty (especially Tigh).

However, players, especially new players who experience infrequent human wins, no longer play for control. In my opinion, the SOLE reason to have the split loyalty distribution in this game is to incentivize players to fight for CONTROL in the early to mid stages of the game. This means taking the Presidency or Admiralty when it's convenient for you, or instead of XOing another player, looking for means to strengthen your own character. The key to winning this game in my opinion is balancing resource loss and personal power (via skill cards and titles).

Now, it will take some time for players to get to this point: perhaps 5-10 games. But, once a group of veterans gets together and engages with the abilities the base game characters are designed for, the bloody battle for CONTROL is the BEST type of fun this game offers.

Base Game Zarek, a character very infrequently chosen in expansion setups, becomes an absolute force to be reckoned with when properly played as a CONTROL character. Little do people know he is arguably the strongest character the base game offers (Apollo beats out Zarek, though). His OPG also allows him to be more reckless when it comes to allowing fuel, food or even morale loss. When you factor when I said earlier about the key to winning the base game is balancing resource loss, titles and skill cards: Base Game Zarek has it all. Unless of course players CONTROL Zarek by blocking Admin and AQ. Again, it's about CONTROL.

Again, the base game is the best because when you play a game where the theme is CONTROL: you are playing against the other players at the table. With expansions, you're just playing against the plastic the game throws out at an increasingly higher rate.

I'd rather play the psychological game against other players, but I certainly understand the allure of increased space combat. But, in my opinion, it destroys a perfect game lying underneath.
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Carl Bussema
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a1bert wrote:
InfoCynic wrote:
yes, this is boring, but it's a great way to win.

It may be more certain way to win in some groups and some setups, but it certainly isn't a great way to win or a great way to play.


OK, yes, fine, it's a reliable way to win, if boring, and otherwise terrible.

Consider a 5p game with 2 cylons on BSB. "Roll for tracks" is always selected, and we'll keep this really simple: if there are 5+ raiders on the main board, select "attempt to damage galactica" else add 3 raiders to the Cylon Fleet Board (spreading them out; favoring the sectors below Galactica, then behind, then front, then above). In reality you should almost certainly choose "CAG must place a civilian ship" some of the time, but we'll ignore that. (If no raiders in the supply, you can choose that instead then.)

The approximate ratio of crisis cards with/without FTL is 4 in 7 (~0.571) have FTL. Without die roll manipulation, each Cylon will lower FTL by 0.375 steps.

So 3 humans advance FTL by 1.714 steps and 2 cylons reduce it by 0.75, thus the average progression of FTL for every 5 turns is only 1. Only 3 crises are run, and it's likely that the Cylons can spike every check with a treachery / engineering / piloting (possibly only 1 of them can spike a given check, and if you're using Daybreak treachery, those treacheries may be 0s but still nasty).

Now, in exchange, humans can trust each other and play XOs, but you're going to have trouble finding an XO every turn, and you're going to want some tactical draw for Strategic Planning to reduce that FTL attrition, and you need some Engineering to repair the frequent damage to Galactica, and oh hey did we mention that there's a massive swarm of raiders piling up and you need to deal with them? Hope at least one pilot isn't a Cylon.

It's not a forgone conclusion, but it is extremely brutal and very discouraging for humans when they go around the table and make little to no FTL progress. It's not really fun for the Cylons either, but given how powerful of a strategy it is, it's hard to say "then don't do it."

Hence, why our group retired the CFB. Cylons stay hidden longer, suspicions are high, and if you're not getting attack crises, that usually just means you're dealing with more skill checks and dealing with card attrition.
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InfoCynic wrote:


OK, yes, fine, it's a reliable way to win, if boring, and otherwise terrible.

Consider a 5p game with 2 cylons on BSB. "Roll for tracks" is always selected, and we'll keep this really simple: if there are 5+ raiders on the main board, select "attempt to damage galactica" else add 3 raiders to the Cylon Fleet Board (spreading them out; favoring the sectors below Galactica, then behind, then front, then above). In reality you should almost certainly choose "CAG must place a civilian ship" some of the time, but we'll ignore that. (If no raiders in the supply, you can choose that instead then.)

The approximate ratio of crisis cards with/without FTL is 4 in 7 (~0.571) have FTL. Without die roll manipulation, each Cylon will lower FTL by 0.375 steps.

So 3 humans advance FTL by 1.714 steps and 2 cylons reduce it by 0.75, thus the average progression of FTL for every 5 turns is only 1. Only 3 crises are run, and it's likely that the Cylons can spike every check with a treachery / engineering / piloting (possibly only 1 of them can spike a given check, and if you're using Daybreak treachery, those treacheries may be 0s but still nasty).

Now, in exchange, humans can trust each other and play XOs, but you're going to have trouble finding an XO every turn, and you're going to want some tactical draw for Strategic Planning to reduce that FTL attrition, and you need some Engineering to repair the frequent damage to Galactica, and oh hey did we mention that there's a massive swarm of raiders piling up and you need to deal with them? Hope at least one pilot isn't a Cylon.

Given what's highlighted, the former says it's 3 vs. 2 revealed cylons, but the latter says it's now 3 humans vs. 1 revealed and 1 unrevealed cylon. Which is it?



InfoCynic wrote:
It's not a forgone conclusion, but it is extremely brutal and very discouraging for humans when they go around the table and make little to no FTL progress. It's not really fun for the Cylons either, but given how powerful of a strategy it is, it's hard to say "then don't do it."

OTOH, the CFB can be stalled.



InfoCynic wrote:
Hence, why our group retired the CFB. Cylons stay hidden longer, suspicions are high, and if you're not getting attack crises, that usually just means you're dealing with more skill checks and dealing with card attrition.
My issues with CAC (which to be fair, has happened with CFB too) if there any ships for humans to deal with, then there's often not enough pressure, and humans have the actions and resources to properly deal with cylons.
 
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"Hopefully at least one of your pilots isn't a Cylon" refers to the revealed Cylons and the 3 remaining humans. Given that it's rare to have 3 pilots in the game (requires a military leader with piloting or Political Leader Apollo and two regular pilots), it's possible for all the pilots in the game to be Cylons. This is usually a disaster if CFB is in play.
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Ackmondual wrote:
My issues with CAC (which to be fair, has happened with CFB too) if there any ships for humans to deal with, then there's often not enough pressure, and humans have the actions and resources to properly deal with cylons.


During these down times is when players should be trying to build their power. Baltar, Zarek, Chief, Apollo and Tigh are all incentivized to go after the President title during down times.

It's also the reason Quorum cards like Assign VP, Accept Prophecy and Encourage Mutiny exist and Consolidate Power exist: to give the president the opportunity to defend their title.

Meanwhile, Roslin's downside prevents the hand from growing too quickly, compared with other Presidents, which actually lessens the value would-be usurpers gain from stealing the Presidency. (I typically OPG as Roslin for my second or third turn: to protect myself from others and to learn what cards remain in the deck.)

It's also no mistake that the game makes it very easy to go after other players that are in a position of power: Admin matches Roslin's (and most political leaders) skill card draw. This means that taking power is usually going to be a cheaper feat to accomplish.

As the game continues and the Quorum hand grows larger, the value of taking the Presidency becomes larger as the standing president invests into it. However, players who are worried about attracting too much attention should probably strike before four distance: when misbehaving can no longer be afforded by the human players.

Players need to learn that the delayed loyalty distribution is meant to provide cover for human selfishness. The mechanic has no other purpose but to incentivize all players to jockey and position for power: so that once they learn what team they are on, the relative power level of that character also strengthens the team they end up on.

So, when there is luls in space combat in the base game and it's early to mid game: take the action that makes your character strongest. Also, if there are two raider activations before civilians are destroyed: leave it to the next player to handle. <-This, is probably the most important aspect of the game many players fail to realize.

Those characters who don't have the innate ability to take the Presidency (because they have a more difficult time getting Politics/Leadership) should consider drawing skill cards from either the Press Room or Research Lab. But, if there is an opening to be greedy: take it.

The one character I think struggles the most playing selfishly though is starbuck. She is really really a bad character in my opinion. If I were to fix her, I'd give her an ability that incentivizes the President to target Starbuck with Quorum cards (Arbitrator, Specialist, VP, Encourage Mutiny). I always felt like the "Assign" cards and Starbuck could use a little bit of pushing.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
Ackmondual wrote:
My issues with CAC (which to be fair, has happened with CFB too) if there any ships for humans to deal with, then there's often not enough pressure, and humans have the actions and resources to properly deal with cylons.


During these down times is when players should be trying to build their power. Baltar, Zarek, Chief, Apollo and Tigh are all incentivized to go after the President title during down times.

It's also the reason Quorum cards like Assign VP, Accept Prophecy and Encourage Mutiny exist and Consolidate Power exist: to give the president the opportunity to defend their title.

Meanwhile, Roslin's downside prevents the hand from growing too quickly, compared with other Presidents, which actually lessens the value would-be usurpers gain from stealing the Presidency. (I typically OPG as Roslin for my second or third turn: to protect myself from others and to learn what cards remain in the deck.)

It's also no mistake that the game makes it very easy to go after other players that are in a position of power: Admin matches Roslin's (and most political leaders) skill card draw. This means that taking power is usually going to be a cheaper feat to accomplish.

As the game continues and the Quorum hand grows larger, the value of taking the Presidency becomes larger as the standing president invests into it. However, players who are worried about attracting too much attention should probably strike before four distance: when misbehaving can no longer be afforded by the human players.

Players need to learn that the delayed loyalty distribution is meant to provide cover for human selfishness. The mechanic has no other purpose but to incentivize all players to jockey and position for power: so that once they learn what team they are on, the relative power level of that character also strengthens the team they end up on.

So, when there is luls in space combat in the base game and it's early to mid game: take the action that makes your character strongest. Also, if there are two raider activations before civilians are destroyed: leave it to the next player to handle. <-This, is probably the most important aspect of the game many players fail to realize.

Those characters who don't have the innate ability to take the Presidency (because they have a more difficult time getting Politics/Leadership) should consider drawing skill cards from either the Press Room or Research Lab. But, if there is an opening to be greedy: take it.

The one character I think struggles the most playing selfishly though is starbuck. She is really really a bad character in my opinion. If I were to fix her, I'd give her an ability that incentivizes the President to target Starbuck with Quorum cards (Arbitrator, Specialist, VP, Encourage Mutiny). I always felt like the "Assign" cards and Starbuck could use a little bit of pushing.


Same situation. No cylon ships still makes all of this an uphill battle for the cylons.
 
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Population is not the only win resource for Cylons. Grabbing and maintaining power/titles during the early and mid game affects the other resources: Fuel, Food and Morale.

Grabbing positions of power puts the player in control of more Cylon win conditions: this is because fights for power affect the Fuel/Food/Morale conditions since AQ, Brig and Admin put pressure on the most valuable human skill cards (Politics/Leadership/Tactics) to fight for control of the ship.

Again, as an example, this is why Tigh should declare martial law proactively instead of reactively. Should Tigh turn Cylon (or always was Cylon), players need to invest two actions and multiple skill cards containing the supreme commander. BUT, what if Tigh declares martial law before the second loyalty card is distributed and Tigh has not played overly Cylon? Players won't like the power being in one players control, but, it might convince another player to head up the Admin to move the title.

As noted by many pro human players: fights for power/titles only helps the Cylons!

Exactly. The point is to put yourself in a position where a fight for your title benefits you and your team.

Consequently, Base Game Cylons that lament their loss was due to the lack of CACs probably deserve the loss since the game gave them tools to accumulate power. If they are strong characters that have CONTROL oriented abilities, which is the majority of the characters, they deserve the loss for not embracing their characters abilities.
 
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