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Subject: does anybody have a Deep Madness vs Shadows of Brimstone indepth comparison? rss

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Fnorbl Fnorblobson
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Hi.

Since both are cooperative games with a remotely lovecraftian horror settings, lots of miniatures, of roughly similar price and both on Kickstarter at the same time, I wondered if anybody has done an indepth comparison of both.

When I google for something like that, the first result is a thread on BGG, that seems to have been deleted.

I personally can't afford getting both, but I could afford supporting one.

Thanks
 
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Enrico
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I'm in the same situation.
I'd like to buy one .... but both are too expensive (expecially if bought with the whole set of expansions).

Or buy only the core modules of both (without any expansion)???

 
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You may call me
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Although they are both in the same genre of board gaming I do they think they scratch different itches. Full disclosure: I haven't actually played SoB but I have been interested in it since it was first on KS.

Shadows of Brimstone is an RPG in a box. Your characters level up and develop with different skills and weapons over several sessions. I don't think there is a campaign or story. You just play random dungeons and kill monsters and level up (please correct me if I'm wrong). Between dungeon crawls you can go into town and upgrade and spend your loot. You will need to assemble all the miniatures. And from all accounts combat is very simple. SoB is about the experience over time and how characters develop.

Deep Madness doesn't have a campaign or levelling up aspect to it. You play scenarios with a story in the background but you always start back at square 1 with your investigators. The maps are laid out at the start and you will fight to achieve your objective and then you're done. You won't need to assemble miniatures. Combat does seem pretty simple too but the monster variety will be what makes it interesting. Deep Madness is about trying to achieve your scenario objectives against horde of monsters during a single session.

EDIT: added a little bit more
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Greg
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I think Deep Madness is more of a Space Hulk style game in which you have two factions struggling against each other in close quarters, with a series of scenarios that are vaguely connected but not really dependent on each other.

SoB is more like a full-on RPG, with a true campaign system (or so I've heard).
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Nick
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Deep Madness is more like an improved (or more complex) Zombicide.
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
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I have read the Deep Madness rulebook and watched the Undead Viking video. I also own and have played Shadows of Brimstone.

The difference is that Deep Madness, even with it's connected storyline, is meant to be played as one-off scenarios. You play a scenario and whatever happens to your characters in one play session doesn't impact the next. This is great for groups who want to play the game in a rotation without having to dedicate a lot of time to it.

Shadows of Brimstone scenarios are not really connected, but your characters are. They level up, collect loot, sustain injuries that affect them from one scenario to the next. And for this to really take affect, you do have to dedicate multiple play sessions to have your character level up.


So I would say that is the choice. Do you want to play one-off missions in a rotation of games or are you interested in playing just one game constantly.

Jorune
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Freelance Police
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FFP is an established company with retail experience as well as KS experience. Their fulfillment has been rocky, taking a *long* time to fulfill their previous KS, which had a lot of content for the pledge. DG has no experience in publishing games.

SoB has been played for several years, with fan support (eg. HexCrawl campaing). DM has not been played by BGG gamers.

SoB is *very* expensive if you collect everything, including the mini-expansions and resin figures. If you stick to the base sets, you can shop around. DM has less total content and their KS is a far better deal, assuming the game is delivered as promised.

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http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...
 
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John
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I'll add this to the conversation, Brimstone uses dice for literally every action in the game. If you don't like dice and high randomness than Brimstone might not be for you.

For example, you roll dice at the start of every turn to see if the darkness track advances, you roll to see how many spaces you can move your character, you roll for attack, the enemies roll to see who they randomly target, the enemies then roll to hit, then the heroes roll to defend. You end up rolling on charts for many side activities, etc...

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Brian C
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Another key difference: Deep Madness seems to give the players a very structured purpose/goal, depending on the scenario they choose to play; but SoB has no real goal or purpose -- I mean, not really. Flip X number of exploration tokens, or some variation on that key mechanic. But looked at as a whole, it's a campaign game without any direction (choose which scenario you want to play), and without any real long-term consequences for winning or losing a scenario, nor tie-ins to other scenarios. Nor does it ever have an end, but you just continue to choose which scenario to play, and you bring your suped up heroes in and hopefully the game balances itself according to your level.

But at no time in SoB do you ever have any real goal to pursue, that you will have in Deep Madness. In fact that may be a huge part of the DM experience: the going in as a team with that purpose looming over and driving you.
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Exo Desta wrote:
Another key difference: Deep Madness seems to give the players a very structured purpose/goal, depending on the scenario they choose to play; but SoB has no real goal or purpose -- I mean, not really. Flip X number of exploration tokens, or some variation on that key mechanic. But looked at as a whole, it's a campaign game without any direction (choose which scenario you want to play), and without any real long-term consequences for winning or losing a scenario, nor tie-ins to other scenarios. Nor does it ever have an end, but you just continue to choose which scenario to play, and you bring your suped up heroes in and hopefully the game balances itself according to your level.

But at no time in SoB do you ever have any real goal to pursue, that you will have in Deep Madness. In fact that may be a huge part of the DM experience: the going in as a team with that purpose looming over and driving you.


But I do like the exploration portion of SoB. You don't know the map and it is randomly generated.

But waaaay too much dice rolling.
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My name is
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I fully pledged DM and I'm still on the fence for SoB.

The problems I've got with this game are numerous though:

1) I'm ok with dice fest and randomness but it seems that this one put these concepts to a higher level.

2) One of my biggest concern: wandering through tiles and choosing a direction to take seems to be of no consequence because there is no incentive to take a path rather than another. They all lead to the same thing. So, it's just cosmetic (for what I heard).

3) There is no monster AI (unless you add some enemy pack) and the combats are too straight forward. You just point and stab/shoot.

4) There is no meaningful decision to make: the game is playing you.
The only decisions that have to be made are how you level up you character.

5) It seems to be made for campaigns but in fact, there is no campaign or ultimate goal. You level up, you level up, you level up.

6) The heroes, enemies and weapons are not balanced. Heroes are very unequal, enemies don't seem to level up according to your characters (not evenly) and the weapons are the same, whatever the level.


Without these concerns, SoB would be an instant buy.

The other game I'm looking at is "Secrets of the Lost tomb" but I really really really don't like the art.
Art wise, it feels to me like an Alpha version of a very low budget game (which it is not).
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baylock wrote:
I fully pledged DM and I'm still on the fence for SoB.

The problems I've got with this game are numerous though:

1) I'm ok with dice fest and randomness but it seems that this one put these concepts to a higher level.

2) One of my biggest concern: wandering through tiles and choosing a direction to take seems to be of no consequence because there is no incentive to take a path rather than another. They all lead to the same thing. So, it's just cosmetic (for what I heard).

3) There is no monster AI (unless you add some enemy pack) and the combats are too straight forward. You just point and stab/shoot.

4) There is no meaningful decision to make: the game is playing you.
The only decisions that have to be made are how you level up you character.

5) It seems to be made for campaigns but in fact, there is no campaign or ultimate goal. You level up, you level up, you level up.

6) The heroes, enemies and weapons are not balanced. Heroes are very unequal, enemies don't seem to level up according to your characters (not evenly) and the weapons are the same, whatever the level.


Without these concerns, SoB would be an instant buy.

The other game I'm looking at is "Secrets of the Lost tomb" but I really really really don't like the art.
Art wise, it feels to me like an Alpha version of a very low budget game (which it is not).


As an owner of SoB, many of your concerns are legit. It is far from a perfect game. BUT, there is something to be said of the character progression. It is stellar. If you just want to tell the story of the many adventures of such and such, SoB can do that. You have no character progression in Deep Madness. There is something to be said about watching your weak character turn into a bad ass over the course of a series of disconnected adventures.

But it will also cost a lot more to get the expansion diversity that will make the game shine.
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Jorune wrote:
baylock wrote:
I fully pledged DM and I'm still on the fence for SoB.

The problems I've got with this game are numerous though:

1) I'm ok with dice fest and randomness but it seems that this one put these concepts to a higher level.

2) One of my biggest concern: wandering through tiles and choosing a direction to take seems to be of no consequence because there is no incentive to take a path rather than another. They all lead to the same thing. So, it's just cosmetic (for what I heard).

3) There is no monster AI (unless you add some enemy pack) and the combats are too straight forward. You just point and stab/shoot.

4) There is no meaningful decision to make: the game is playing you.
The only decisions that have to be made are how you level up you character.

5) It seems to be made for campaigns but in fact, there is no campaign or ultimate goal. You level up, you level up, you level up.

6) The heroes, enemies and weapons are not balanced. Heroes are very unequal, enemies don't seem to level up according to your characters (not evenly) and the weapons are the same, whatever the level.


Without these concerns, SoB would be an instant buy.

The other game I'm looking at is "Secrets of the Lost tomb" but I really really really don't like the art.
Art wise, it feels to me like an Alpha version of a very low budget game (which it is not).


As an owner of SoB, many of your concerns are legit. It is far from a perfect game. BUT, there is something to be said of the character progression. It is stellar. If you just want to tell the story of the many adventures of such and such, SoB can do that. You have no character progression in Deep Madness. There is something to be said about watching your weak character turn into a bad ass over the course of a series of disconnected adventures.

But it will also cost a lot more to get the expansion diversity that will make the game shine.


That's why I'm on the fence. It seems to tell wonderful stories.
And I would go for it ONLY if I can find an Outlaw or (less likely) a Mine Cart Kickstarter version of it.

I would love to see someone houseruling in a decent and elegant way all the concerns I have about the game, making it a little more tactical.
If so, I would be very glad to invest in it.
 
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baylock wrote:
Jorune wrote:
baylock wrote:
I fully pledged DM and I'm still on the fence for SoB.

The problems I've got with this game are numerous though:

1) I'm ok with dice fest and randomness but it seems that this one put these concepts to a higher level.

2) One of my biggest concern: wandering through tiles and choosing a direction to take seems to be of no consequence because there is no incentive to take a path rather than another. They all lead to the same thing. So, it's just cosmetic (for what I heard).

3) There is no monster AI (unless you add some enemy pack) and the combats are too straight forward. You just point and stab/shoot.

4) There is no meaningful decision to make: the game is playing you.
The only decisions that have to be made are how you level up you character.

5) It seems to be made for campaigns but in fact, there is no campaign or ultimate goal. You level up, you level up, you level up.

6) The heroes, enemies and weapons are not balanced. Heroes are very unequal, enemies don't seem to level up according to your characters (not evenly) and the weapons are the same, whatever the level.


Without these concerns, SoB would be an instant buy.

The other game I'm looking at is "Secrets of the Lost tomb" but I really really really don't like the art.
Art wise, it feels to me like an Alpha version of a very low budget game (which it is not).


As an owner of SoB, many of your concerns are legit. It is far from a perfect game. BUT, there is something to be said of the character progression. It is stellar. If you just want to tell the story of the many adventures of such and such, SoB can do that. You have no character progression in Deep Madness. There is something to be said about watching your weak character turn into a bad ass over the course of a series of disconnected adventures.

But it will also cost a lot more to get the expansion diversity that will make the game shine.


That's why I'm on the fence. It seems to tell wonderful stories.
And I would go for it ONLY if I can find an Outlaw or (less likely) a Mine Cart Kickstarter version of it.

I would love to see someone houseruling in a decent and elegant way all the concerns I have about the game, making it a little more tactical.
If so, I would be very glad to invest in it.


The tactical portion is coming more and more. The Trenderran Deluxe Otherworld has cover. But again, that's more money to spend. And the constant dice rolling can get annoying. In CMON's Massive Darkness, one roll tells you if you hit, how much damage, what damage gets soaked up and even if an enemy's ability is triggered. SoB has you rolling to hit, than damage, than defense. 3 rolls vs. 1.

Jorune
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Having not read any of the rules myself, this might be dumb, but is there any leeway in allowing some sort of cross-scenario campaign leveling in DM?

I have no idea if such a thing could be implemented, or how quickly it would break the scenarios apart, but still. If we're talking about fixing SoB in certain ways, is there any chance of fixing DM in the other direction? Or would there even be a need to?
 
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Tom Zsolt
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Not the way the game has been developed, however one of the expansions does do this. It's a mini campaign where events in one scenario affect the next.
 
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