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Subject: Do hero and enemy units block LoS? rss

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Tommaso Sammataro
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Sorry if this question has already been answered, but I couldn't find it.

If I want to perform a ranged attack but there are units beetween my area and the target area, do they block my attack or the LoS pass through units as if any units weren't there?

From the rulebook, it seems LoS is blocked only by elements on the map, I'm confused.

Thank you for the help.
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Stephan Beal
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tommy82pi wrote:

Sorry if this question has already been answered, but I couldn't find it.

If I want to perform a ranged attack but there are units beetween my area and the target area, do they block my attack or the LoS pass through units as if any units weren't there?

From the rulebook, it seems LoS is blocked only by elements on the map, I'm confused.

Thank you for the help.


We have to assume "no" because each zone is rather big and minis blocking LOS implies that the minis have to be standing directly in a certain (blocking) part of the zone. That is in directly conflict with Conan's complexity level. If the zones were such that only 1 mini fit in each zone (e.g. a conventional hex or square grid), it would be fair to argue that they could block LOS. In "large zones" type of maps, however, the position of any given mini within any given zone is irrelevant. e.g. Conan and an enemy can be 3 inches apart from each other, and still be in melee, if the zone is large enough. Additionally, LOS is only counted from center-to-center of each zone. If the physical position of the minis were significant for LOS purposes, the LOS dots would not exist because they would be irrelevant. Sometimes it is necessary to slide minis around within a zone to make room for new minis. If the minis themselves impacted LOS decisions, such adjustments of minis would not be practical and players could take advantage of that to block other minis from entering an area they might otherwise fit in.

Edit: e.g. by placing the heroes "optimally", they could block the Snake from entering their space, and therefore avoid its Blocker ability while still being able to attack it in melee because of how the "when a zone is full" rules work. Such play would be a blatant abuse of the system.

Summary: if minis block LOS, the whole LOS and zone system is majorly screwed up. Thus we have to assume "no, they don't block LOS."
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Dave Smith
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Logic says that if a little bush can block LOS then so will 5 men in the way. Nothing in the rules about it so we just take it as a hindered shot as if those models were in the same area as the shooter.
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Stephan Beal
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Major Mishap wrote:
Logic says that if a little bush can block LOS then so will 5 men in the way. Nothing in the rules about it so we just take it as a hindered shot as if those models were in the same area as the shooter.


The difference is that the little bush has a fixed position on the map, whereas Conan's level of detail does not account for micro-management of the position of minis. In fact, it discourages it via things like the "when a zone is full" rule. Micro-positioning of minis makes it possible to completely game the filling up of a zone by spreading out minis just less than one base-width apart from each other (e.g. heroes could completely block the Snake's movement this way). Any unit in a zone can melee attack any other unit in that zone, even if they're at a scale distance of 15 feet apart. That effectively excludes the micro-management of the precise position of minis.

An unfortunate related problem is the positioning of "opening" counters when someone breaks through [a segment of] a wall, as the precise position of that counter may adversely affect future LOS calculations through that opening.
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Felipe Bulhões
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Slightly off topic, but please help me understand the LoS rules.

If I am on a elevated terrain, I only have LoS to the adjacent areas and vice-versa?

If am on the wall, I don't have LoS to the entire blue region, only to the blue areas adjacent to my space?

This doesn't really make any sense to me.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Coiote wrote:
Slightly off topic, but please help me understand the LoS rules.

If I am on a elevated terrain, I only have LoS to the adjacent areas and vice-versa?

If am on the wall, I don't have LoS to the entire blue region, only to the blue areas adjacent to my space?

This doesn't really make any sense to me.


The answers (or, more accurately, guesses!) to your questions are all scenario- and map-specific. Many other threads include pictures of the boards and suggestions for how LOS should work on each board (including graphics with lines pointing to "allowed" areas). Almost all such suggestions come from fans, though, not Monolith - the LOS situation is a bit of a confused mess and requires plenty of judgement calls on the players' parts. Please do a subject-only search of the forums for "LOS" and (separate search) "line of sight" for far more info/speculation.
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William Aull
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I'm almost in favor of having a set # of figures block LoS.

If I have 5 picts in front of a boss figure in another tile, I'd like to think I can have my picts block, instead of having some sort of magical sniper tactic right through the mob.
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Stephan Beal
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Hillean wrote:
I'm almost in favor of having a set # of figures block LoS.

If I have 5 picts in front of a boss figure in another tile, I'd like to think I can have my picts block, instead of having some sort of magical sniper tactic right through the mob.


And then you'll have to make exceptions for zones which literally can't fit more than 2 minis (see the Ship map for one of those). Accounting for such exceptions is a long, slippery slope.
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Joost
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sgbeal wrote:
An unfortunate related problem is the positioning of "opening" counters when someone breaks through [a segment of] a wall, as the precise position of that counter may adversely affect future LOS calculations through that opening.


We decided to assume that the whole section of wall where the two sectors meet to be destroyed. I'm not sure if this is right, but i don't feel like it makes sense to rule that the size of the opening is the size of the token. Otherwise an opening would hardly create any LOS advantage. Plus; how big of a hole does a giant snake make?
 
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Dave Smith
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No need for micro managing model placement at all, just using the standard hindered rule, also seems to be correct due the the archers ignoring hindering shots, meaning models in the way of the target. Also makes complete sense, which is how you have to play this game due to the translation issues.
 
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Tommaso Sammataro
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sgbeal wrote:

Summary: if minis block LOS, the whole LOS and zone system is majorly screwed up. Thus we have to assume "no, they don't block LOS."


Thanks, this is how I played. I agree with your considerations but I also see the point of William:

Hillean wrote:
... having some sort of magical sniper tactic right through the mob.


You couldn't say it better
 
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Stephan Beal
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tommy82pi wrote:
sgbeal wrote:

Summary: if minis block LOS, the whole LOS and zone system is majorly screwed up. Thus we have to assume "no, they don't block LOS."


Thanks, this is how I played. I agree with your considerations but I also see the point of William:

Hillean wrote:
... having some sort of magical sniper tactic right through the mob.


You couldn't say it better


Don't forget that one round is some unspecified length of time, presumably 10-30 seconds or so, during which any given zone is not likely to be "completely" blocked the whole time because its occupants are moving around, dodging attacks, jockeying for position, dodging arrows, etc. Thus, at some point, there's likely to be at least one opportunity for a clear shot.
 
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Stephan Beal
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pietpiraat wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
An unfortunate related problem is the positioning of "opening" counters when someone breaks through [a segment of] a wall, as the precise position of that counter may adversely affect future LOS calculations through that opening.


We decided to assume that the whole section of wall where the two sectors meet to be destroyed. I'm not sure if this is right, but i don't feel like it makes sense to rule that the size of the opening is the size of the token. Otherwise an opening would hardly create any LOS advantage.


Quite coincidentally, that was also my conclusion in the meantime. Still waiting to try it out in play, but it seems reasonable enough to me, given the cinematic level of epicness of the rest of the game.

pietpiraat wrote:
Plus; how big of a hole does a giant snake make?


A quote from the 80's comes to mind:

Quote:
...it's gonna need a paint job and a sh** load of screen doors.

-- Sgt. Al Powell, LAPD

 
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Dave Smith
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sgbeal wrote:
tommy82pi wrote:
sgbeal wrote:

Summary: if minis block LOS, the whole LOS and zone system is majorly screwed up. Thus we have to assume "no, they don't block LOS."


Thanks, this is how I played. I agree with your considerations but I also see the point of William:

Hillean wrote:
... having some sort of magical sniper tactic right through the mob.


You couldn't say it better


Don't forget that one round is some unspecified length of time, presumably 10-30 seconds or so, during which any given zone is not likely to be "completely" blocked the whole time because its occupants are moving around, dodging attacks, jockeying for position, dodging arrows, etc. Thus, at some point, there's likely to be at least one opportunity for a clear shot.


And what you say is actually the definition of a hindered shot, having to take a snap shot when a target reveals itself rather than a carefully aimed one.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Major Mishap wrote:
And what you say is actually the definition of a hindered shot, having to take a snap shot when a target reveals itself rather than a carefully aimed one.


In a detailed tactical game, yes. My point, however, was actually quite the opposite: in this game characters are allowed so much freedom of movement and timing (e.g. firing a crossbow 4 times and swinging an axe 4 times in one round, and making those attacks in any order), that they can (thematically) choose to take a shot at whatever instant is most advantageous to them.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Wait, are we sure the little bushes block LOS?
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This question is now clearly solved in the French revised rulebook:
Quote:
Les figurines amies comme ennemies ne bloquent pas la ligne de
vue mais peuvent générer de la gêne (cf. page 17).


=> Allies and enemies don't block LOS.
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