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Subject: Why I'm not "being a good sport" about the US election rss

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Moshe Callen
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When it comes to politics, my shtick is fairly straightforward:
1. I refuse to apologize for being Israeli or Jewish or let ignorant bigoted crap about Israel, Jews or Israelis pass unchallenged.
2. "Never again" should actually mean something.
3. If a basic right is denies arbitrarily to one person, then no one
4. Gov't should be restricted to certain well defined categories of tasks, should have the powers needed to do those types of tasks but no more. (I'm starting to think corporations, especially international ones, should be treated in this respect like gov'ts.)
5. If power can be abused, it will be.

The Patriotic Act has undermined every Constitutional protection on the books. Trump now has that kind of power.

Now he comes Trump.
1. Bigotry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-exam...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-a-bi...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/more-bigotry-from-th...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/opinion/donald-trumps-bigo...

2. Misogyny:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexis...
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/news/a44629/donald-trum...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-misogyny-wo...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/presidentia...

. Antisemitism:
http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalis...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/anti-semitism-is-no-...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/anti-semitism-unleashed-by-trum...
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.752064
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/donald-trump-...
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-closing-argum...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/senator-al-f...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3911754/Jewish-Anti-...

Maybe Trump won't act on what he's said, but what if he does?
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whac3 wrote:
Maybe Trump won't act on what he's said, but what if he does?


This is the thing. Now we have to see if he can actually do anything he thought he could. Or if a ton of advisers make him take different paths.

Its an uncertain future at this point.
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I'm trying to put a positive spin on it which is weird for me but we're off the map so let's try something new.

Ultimately, barring a Nazi Germany-esque descent into totalitarian fascism (unlikely but possible) Trump can only exceed my expectations. On the other hand, he ran on grandiose vague promises with no detailed plans for anything allowing each voter to fill in the picture for themselves as to what it means to make America great again. I suspect it will be very difficult to meet all of those individual and unrealistic expectations. I think he better have very quick fixes in line to help rural white voters and he's going to have the "drain the swamp" which has been and still is dominated by his own party. Thus I suspect he can only disappoint those who voted for him. Should be quite challenging but we'll see.

Short term though, the Age of Reason is over.

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whac3 wrote:
When it comes to politics, my shtick is fairly straightforward:
1. I refuse to apologize for being Israeli or Jewish or let ignorant bigoted crap about Israel, Jews or Israelis pass unchallenged.
2. "Never again" should actually mean something.
3. If a basic right is denies arbitrarily to one person, then no one
4. Gov't should be restricted to certain well defined categories of tasks, should have the powers needed to do those types of tasks but no more. (I'm starting to think corporations, especially international ones, should be treated in this respect like gov'ts.)
5. If power can be abused, it will be.

The Patriotic Act has undermined every Constitutional protection on the books. Trump now has that kind of power.

Now he comes Trump.
1. Bigotry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-exam...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-a-bi...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/more-bigotry-from-th...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/opinion/donald-trumps-bigo...

2. Misogyny:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexis...
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/news/a44629/donald-trum...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-misogyny-wo...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/presidentia...

. Antisemitism:
http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalis...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/anti-semitism-is-no-...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/anti-semitism-unleashed-by-trum...
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.752064
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/donald-trump-...
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-closing-argum...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/senator-al-f...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3911754/Jewish-Anti-...

Maybe Trump won't act on what he's said, but what if he does?


Well, the good news is he's going to be hiring a bunch of your people as accountants...

The Patriot Act was a massive overreaction, no doubt. And there have been abuses. But I think Trump is all hat and no cattle. His acceptance speech this morning was surprising, mostly because he appeared to suddenly realize the enormity of what he got himself into. I share your concerns, my friend, but I also have faith in my Constitution, and the people who are in government (the unelected civil servants and members of the Armed Services). There is no scenario where I could imagine the Congress of the United States allowing Trump to abandon Israel or the Jewish people. Western Europe, on the other hand....
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remorseless1 wrote:

Well, the good news is he's going to be hiring a bunch of your people as accountants...


Wow.
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Fwing wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:

Well, the good news is he's going to be hiring a bunch of your people as accountants...


Wow.


Donald Trump wrote:
The only kind of people I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.


I don't know why JD thinks Moshe is short, though.
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Salo sila wrote:
Fwing wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:

Well, the good news is he's going to be hiring a bunch of your people as accountants...


Wow.


Donald Trump wrote:
The only kind of people I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.


I don't know why JD thinks Moshe is short, though.


That's libelous statement attributed to Trump; he actually, supposedly said that.
 
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J.D. Hall
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Trump knows that Moshe is short???

Fwing wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:

Well, the good news is he's going to be hiring a bunch of your people as accountants...


Wow.

Dude, it's a joke. I'm riffing off a statement attributed to Trump. Lighten up a little.
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whac3 wrote:
When it comes to politics, my shtick is fairly straightforward:
1. I refuse to apologize for being Israeli or Jewish or let ignorant bigoted crap about Israel, Jews or Israelis pass unchallenged.
2. "Never again" should actually mean something.
3. If a basic right is denies arbitrarily to one person, then no one
4. Gov't should be restricted to certain well defined categories of tasks, should have the powers needed to do those types of tasks but no more. (I'm starting to think corporations, especially international ones, should be treated in this respect like gov'ts.)
5. If power can be abused, it will be.

The Patriotic Act has undermined every Constitutional protection on the books. Trump now has that kind of power.

Now he comes Trump.

<snip>

. Antisemitism:
http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/press-center/CR_4862_Journalis...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/anti-semitism-is-no-...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/anti-semitism-unleashed-by-trum...
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.752064
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/donald-trump-...
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-closing-argum...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/senator-al-f...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3911754/Jewish-Anti-...

Maybe Trump won't act on what he's said, but what if he does?


All that long list rehashes one video where Blankfein, Yellen and Soros were juxtaposed. To be honest it never occurred to me to think of Yellen's religious affiliation - I listen to her words and wisdom (or possibly lack thereof at times). Reality is though that she is at a very powerful set of buttons and if you are anti-establishment she is a fair target for criticism. Blankfein - I suppose the name is supposed to tip me off but I am quite ever so sorry - I always see him as a shark of a banker (and probably an extremely good one) rather than Jewish. Criticising Goldman Sachs as a proxy for Wallstreet ubergreed - ok by me.

As for Soros - he's a hypocrite and manipulative speculator who finances a whole slew of European NGOs that are decidedly anti-business and anti-free trade. Once again nothing Jewish about that but just something he - the man - does. All three are legitimate targets as major active powerbrokers who voluntarily and actively intervene in the international political and economical framework. They are not singled out for being jewish.

I dont see what right you have to deny anyone the right to criticise them simply because these people also happen to be jewish. The FED is the most important monetary agency in the world and GS certainly is deemed one of the very biggest banks. Soros seeks out publicity himself and is therefore fair game.

I am pretty certain that none of those three persons agree with you either. The comments made by the ADF and Senator Frank are shocking: “a German shepherd whistle, a dog whistle” with then added text to the effect that Hitler loved German shepherds. Do you contend that 3.5 million americans who own German shepherds are secret Nazis? Do you realise that German shepherds are the #2 most popular dog race in Israel? You just don't know what anti-semitism is.

When I visited the concentration camp Theresin there was an expo - the one image that never left me was the original of a License for a Jew to own a Canary. Yes - Jews couldnt own pets in nazi-Germany because it was deemed that being a Jew they would automatically be exceedingly cruel to animals. Therefore to protect the animals, if you wanted a pet as a jew you needed to obtain a special license. That is anti-semitism - calling out three persons who happen to be Jewish for their acts and positions is NOT anti-semitic. And once again - your long list rehashes only that ONE INSTANCE - its not a pattern either which had it been present might have indicated anti-jewish bias.

Just to be clear "Never again" means "Never again".
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Geosphere wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Maybe Trump won't act on what he's said, but what if he does?


This is the thing. Now we have to see if he can actually do anything he thought he could. Or if a ton of advisers make him take different paths.

Its an uncertain future at this point.


I think we shouldn't underestimate the fact that nearly 60 million people voted for someone who said these things, who campaigned on them.

If even from a symbolic standpoint, I find the potential consequences mind boggling.

In other words, even if Trump does follow a path of relative sanity from now on, culturally it seems a lot of serious damage is already done.
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Can you let us know, whac, when Trump does something that personally affects you?

I am very interested to know if Trump does something that negatively impacts your life, or makes it better.
 
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TrustyJules wrote:

No, it doesn't rehash one video. It discusses the Star of David over a background of money with Clinton's picture in a Trump ad and various other things. Denying his antisemitism and other bigotries is just wishful thinking at this point.

Yes, "Never again" does mean "Never again". I'm not saying Trump is the next Hitler. I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"
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J.D. Hall
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whac3 wrote:
I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


With all due respect, I think that is the question everyone (not just Americans) should ask of their elected leaders. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Power corrupts. Trust but verify.
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pedrolisboa wrote:
In other words, even if Trump does follow a path of relative sanity from now on, culturally it seems a lot of serious damage is already done.


Even if he lost, that would be the case.
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remorseless1 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


With all due respect, I think that is the question everyone (not just Americans) should ask of their elected leaders. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Power corrupts. Trust but verify.

It's more pertinent to some than others based on their history. An advocate of tolerance, peace, and mutual cooperation is far less likely to be an evil leader.
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Geosphere wrote:
Even if he lost, that would be the case.


Very true, but I think the historical legitimization brought about by winning takes it to a new, even scarier, level.
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whac3 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


With all due respect, I think that is the question everyone (not just Americans) should ask of their elected leaders. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Power corrupts. Trust but verify.

It's more pertinent to some than others based on their history. An advocate of tolerance, peace, and mutual cooperation is far less likely to be an evil leader.


Like the one that lists her opposing political party as an "enemy to be proud of" and writes off 25% of Americans as deplorable? Is that what you call an "advocate of tolerance, peace, and mutual cooperation?"

Edit: Although, as you mentioned in another thread, you'd been planning to vote as I did until they changed the rules.

The real shame is that with the two worst candidates in memory, 95+% still voted Republocrat.
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qzhdad wrote:
whac3 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


With all due respect, I think that is the question everyone (not just Americans) should ask of their elected leaders. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Power corrupts. Trust but verify.

It's more pertinent to some than others based on their history. An advocate of tolerance, peace, and mutual cooperation is far less likely to be an evil leader.


Like the one that lists her opposing political party as an "enemy to be proud of" and writes off 25% of Americans as deplorable? Is that what you call an "advocate of tolerance, peace, and mutual cooperation?"


The left must think of those deplorables as not real people.
 
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qzhdad wrote:
whac3 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


With all due respect, I think that is the question everyone (not just Americans) should ask of their elected leaders. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Power corrupts. Trust but verify.

It's more pertinent to some than others based on their history. An advocate of tolerance, peace, and mutual cooperation is far less likely to be an evil leader.


Like the one that lists her opposing political party as an "enemy to be proud of" and writes off 25% of Americans as deplorable? Is that what you call an "advocate of tolerance, peace, and mutual cooperation?"

Edit: Although, as you mentioned in another thread, you'd been planning to vote as I did until they changed the rules.

The real shame is that with the two worst candidates in memory, 95+% still voted Republocrat.

To be honest, there'd be questions to ask if HRC got into office too, just not as many as with Trump.
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whac3 wrote:
TrustyJules wrote:

No, it doesn't rehash one video. It discusses the Star of David over a background of money with Clinton's picture in a Trump ad and various other things. Denying his antisemitism and other bigotries is just wishful thinking at this point.

Yes, "Never again" does mean "Never again". I'm not saying Trump is the next Hitler. I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


I call you out on that, here are the tweets:



They just used a star (like loads of such DTP programs offer) and then realised WTF someone is taking this as anti-jewish. Storm in a tea cup - the rest is all a long rehash of the same video with the same insinuations repeated and then long lists of people who have often very real unpleasant experiences but certainly not at the hands of Trump.

EDIT FOR STUPID LINK
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TrustyJules wrote:
whac3 wrote:
TrustyJules wrote:

No, it doesn't rehash one video. It discusses the Star of David over a background of money with Clinton's picture in a Trump ad and various other things. Denying his antisemitism and other bigotries is just wishful thinking at this point.

Yes, "Never again" does mean "Never again". I'm not saying Trump is the next Hitler. I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


I call you out on that, here are the tweets:



They just used a star (like loads of such DTP programs offer) and then realised WTF someone is taking this as anti-jewish. Storm in a tea cup - the rest is all a long rehash of the same video with the same insinuations repeated and then long lists of people who have often very real unpleasant experiences but certainly not at the hands of Trump.

EDIT FOR STUPID LINK

De-Nile. It ain't just a river in Egypt anymore.
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whac3 wrote:
TrustyJules wrote:
whac3 wrote:
TrustyJules wrote:

No, it doesn't rehash one video. It discusses the Star of David over a background of money with Clinton's picture in a Trump ad and various other things. Denying his antisemitism and other bigotries is just wishful thinking at this point.

Yes, "Never again" does mean "Never again". I'm not saying Trump is the next Hitler. I'm saying that we should not be in a situation where we need ask the question "What if he is?"


I call you out on that, here are the tweets:



They just used a star (like loads of such DTP programs offer) and then realised WTF someone is taking this as anti-jewish. Storm in a tea cup - the rest is all a long rehash of the same video with the same insinuations repeated and then long lists of people who have often very real unpleasant experiences but certainly not at the hands of Trump.

EDIT FOR STUPID LINK

De-Nile. It ain't just a river in Egypt anymore.


FFS, it came from a white supremacist site. There is literally no question why they chose that piece of clip-art over the thousands of other shapes they could have chosen.

FFS.
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Quote:
De-Nile. It ain't just a river in Egypt anymore.


LOL LOL - certainly one of us in denial. Seriously it saddens me when people find trivial reasons to take offence when they lack real ones. You are not alone there are hordes of others from all sides of the political and religious spectrums. I tell you all: get a life.

Peace be with you Moshe.
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Hey Moshe, can you set me and the family up with an apartment in Jerusalem? Seems like a safer bet than here.

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remorseless1 wrote:
Trump knows that Moshe is short???

Fwing wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:

Well, the good news is he's going to be hiring a bunch of your people as accountants...


Wow.

Dude, it's a joke. I'm riffing off a statement attributed to Trump. Lighten up a little.


Seems a lot of people have misplaced their sense of humor today. Hey, I voted for Kodos, er, Clinton, I mean, but that's OK. I thought she would make a lousy president too, so my expectations were rock bottom no matter who won. Now it's like going on a new roller coaster for the first time - it's going to be exciting, and maybe a little dangerous.

Also,I just realized I'm on a three term losing streak. McCain, Romney, and now Hillary. People I voted for because I valued experience over personality each time, and I lost each time. It's like I'm in last place in my fantasy political league because I drafted poorly.
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