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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » General

Subject: Scenario 5: Vin Dietel to the rescue, or not rss

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I'm on my phone here so no long rambling session report but rest assured the action was as intense and amazing as ever on hedgerows and hand grenades, I got my Germans set up in some nice fire lanes and was holding on quite easily, before getting into a bit of trouble with some ill advised close combat. The score hovered close to zero, as the wife secured objective 4 in the center, rats this was my secret objective. She was certainly successful in filling up my casualty track, luckily for me hr artillery was woefully inaccurate for the most part but she still managed to regain the lead as time approached sudden death. One Sd roll failed and one time she handed t over the IC not knowing if my secret objective made me win (hers was open). As it happened she would have won but she was unwilling to let me drop double sixes on my 150mm radio I'd picked up in support just as things looked bleak for Germany. I tried in vain to make breaks for objective 4 which shed teasingly left open, with 2VP per objective it was a 4 point swing. Once again last luck smiled on Germany as the wife's USA pulled a secret objective 10 vp for objective 5* which the Germans sat entrenched in

She made a valiant move up the hedgerows to position herself to shoot at Schrader and his squad which I realized in a panic were enough to fill my surrender level, despite it having been twice increased by ELAN event already. She broke them with some timely rolling and boost actions and I could not find a recover card, could not move over the hedges to safety and could not rout them to safety either, sitting ducks of defeat they were and as another large fire group waded in for the kill, the squad fell, but at least had an event!

It was Dietel to the rescue, emerging from the beleaguered squad he tried to rally his comrades but alas they hit the deck in panic and were thus eliminated by the defense roll. Schrader stood tall but then we thought the event is 'done' so Dietel should be the affected by the fire attack, and thus his defense roll pulled the double sixes time trigger which left me 4, adjusted to 3 for obj 4, vp victory with my casualty track full ( she had one unit in hers), and I had to admit it felt like she was hard done by.

But it was a fantastic game, and the plexiglass was left in place for scenarios 5&8 or 6&7 at the weekend.

*as I write this I realise that I think that objective was removed from the mix but it must have gotten mixed up back in somehow, thus the scenario result swings in the wife's well deserved favour
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No it's scenario 3 wth the 3 removed objectives so she'll just have to suffer the loss this the and remember to bear objective 5 in mind in general when secret objectives are in play
 
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Marty Sample
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BoJack Horseman wrote:

It was Dietel to the rescue, emerging from the beleaguered squad he tried to rally his comrades but alas they hit the deck in panic and were thus eliminated by the defense roll. Schrader stood tall but then we thought the event is 'done' so Dietel should be the affected by the fire attack, and thus his defense roll pulled the double sixes time trigger which left me 4, adjusted to 3 for obj 4, vp victory with my casualty track full ( she had one unit in hers), and I had to admit it felt like she was hard done by.


If a Defense Roll brought Dietl into play, he would not have to make a Defense Roll of his own because he was not in the hex when the Fire Attack was declared.
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Thanks Marty, we did discuss that at the end but it was late so we left it. I had a hand full of cards and so I think I would have flipped the time trigger on the next die roll anyway but thanks for the correction
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Marty Sample
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I know the feeling on heroes/triggers. I had one memorable game where my Hero caused THREE Time triggers during the course of a single Move order. Luckily I was winning the scenario at the time.
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Chick Lewis
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"she was unwilling to let me drop double sixes on my 150mm radio"

Not quite sure what the above means, but it makes me wonder if you are drawing a new firepower card for each affected hex.

"Dietel to the rescue, emerging from the beleaguered squad he tried to rally his comrades but alas they hit the deck in panic"

And that quote makes me wonder if you know that the hero gets to AUTOMATICALLY rally a unit, not just have them pull a card t TRY to rally.

"secret objective 10 vp for objective 5"

There are no secret objectives worth 10 points, only an open one, but you may mean a 5 point secret objective which would cause a 10 point 'swing'.

Really great that you are having such fun.
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chicklewis wrote:
"she was unwilling to let me drop double sixes on my 150mm radio"

Not quite sure what the above means, but it makes me wonder if you are drawing a new firepower card for each affected hex.


I think we had it right, basically the artillery hit smack on the nose and stood to hit 3 hexes stacked with her units. With a base FP of 12, I then rolled the 12, so she was faced with accepting a 24 attack total, but with the chance of a time trigger SD win (which she probably should have taken). But she handed me the IC for a reroll. But that total FP would have been applied to all the affected hexes.

edit: of course, this is totally WRONG as Russ Points out below, and was obviously what you meant Chick. AARRGHHH We've definitely rolled separately Before, as I remember it, dont know why I forgot and switched to a single total.


chicklewis wrote:
"Dietel to the rescue, emerging from the beleaguered squad he tried to rally his comrades but alas they hit the deck in panic"

And that quote makes me wonder if you know that the hero gets to AUTOMATICALLY rally a unit, not just have them pull a card t TRY to rally.


Arrgh its so obvious that this is the intent, I Think as usual we just got caught up in the drama - sudden Death on the horizon, VPs round 0, critical objectives up for grabs etc. So we definitely boobed and made a rally roll (which is where the game ending time trigger came!)


chicklewis wrote:
"secret objective 10 vp for objective 5"

There are no secret objectives worth 10 points, only an open one, but you may mean a 5 point secret objective which would cause a 10 point 'swing'.


The event said draw an objective, and it was one of the open ones, I didnt go back and check the rules on those, of course it also makes total sense that the open ones are not thrown into the bag to be given as an event, since it did seem a bit unfair to pull a 10VP Obj 5 chit in plain sight when I was sat in it

chicklewis wrote:
Really great that you are having such fun.


Thanks for taking the time to engage with me here Chick (and the others), its much appreciated!

The plan is to work through the scenarios, then spend some more time rereading the rule book with hopefully a better understanding of which parts we've been forgetting or misinterpreting and then replay the scenarios "properly" and maybe with a slightly higher quality AAR
Oh and the RSG
oh, and the 100 odd other scenarios and Campaigns
that should tide me over until CC: Pacific, then CC: Vietnam and then CC: Winter War (if I keep saying the last one enough, it might happen)
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Russ Williams
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BoJack Horseman wrote:
But that total FP would have been applied to all the affected hexes.


But:
CC rules wrote:
O18.2.3.2 Artillery Barrage—If this was not
a smoke barrage, then each hex within the
impact area that contains at least one unit or
Fortification must have a separate Artillery
Impact Roll made against it.


BoJack Horseman wrote:
chicklewis wrote:
"Dietel to the rescue, emerging from the beleaguered squad he tried to rally his comrades but alas they hit the deck in panic"

And that quote makes me wonder if you know that the hero gets to AUTOMATICALLY rally a unit, not just have them pull a card t TRY to rally.


Arrgh its so obvious that this is the intent, I Think as usual we just got caught up in the drama - sudden Death on the horizon, VPs round 0, critical objectives up for grabs etc. So we definitely boobed and made a rally roll (which is where the game ending time trigger came!)

If it makes you feel better, I still sometimes don't remember which way that rallying from a leader works, and have to check the rules to confirm.
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ah shit, we DID do separate rolls the first time we played artillery but for some reason, we just Went with the single roll this time, aarrgh. And again, if I'd even stopped to Think about it, it makes sense within the game, I'm such a doofus!

Anyway, it's good that I've consigned these opening plays as Learning experiences, and so its great that you guys take the time to decipher my errors as well, thanks a lot!
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Marty Sample
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The other thing to remember with Artillery is to check for Fortification destruction when applicable.
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Paul Trad

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It looks like you got these latest rules questions down pat now, but I will go ahead and beat this (ahem)... dead horse.

Many CC players, of lofty intelligence even, have miscalculated how an Objective chit affects the VP track. Usually this wacky wicker snickle(my attempt at Brit speak) happens in the printed scenarios. But the fuzziness sometimes drifts into RSGs.

When you play a Scenario, if no additional Objectives are drawn - no problem.

Any chit drawn Open awards VPs right away to the side in possession. This modifies the Scenario listed VPs before anyone draws a card.

Any Secret Objective or non-VP related chit has no affect on current VPs.

Here is where the fun/confusion happens -

After play begins, open Objectives drawn during play grant their face value in VPs to the current hex controller.

BUT

If a chit already assessed to the VP track changes control(the hex actually, not the chit, but you see what I mean) the the actual VP change is x2 the base value. The loss amount plus the gain amount.

In RSG the Objectives are drawn very early in the game design process, but their VP affect isn't felt until just before the game begins, so starting VPs are a simple calculation of who owns which Open chit. In fact, the big VPs come from force selection, often not the chits.

Hope this is helpful, useful, fun, or at least not annoying.
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Thanks yeah I think we got that part right so far, I just need to read up the event that gives you a secret objective draw if you're supposed to not have the open ones in the bag (e.g. Objective 5 = 10 VP)
 
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Marty Sample
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If a scenario special rule tells you to remove an Objective chit it is gone for good, even if you get a Random draw later on via Event. When in doubt, read the rules very literally.
 
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Scenario 2 didn't say that so I think we're good then. We may have debated whether to literally interpret 'draw a secret objective' to imply that you only include single sided objective chits but in this case we had all the objectives in a bag and an 'open' one popped out. I think you could use the phrase 'literally' to support both interpretations
 
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Russ Williams
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BoJack Horseman wrote:
Scenario 2 didn't say that so I think we're good then. We may have debated whether to literally interpret 'draw a secret objective' to imply that you only include single sided objective chits but in this case we had all the objectives in a bag and an 'open' one popped out. I think you could use the phrase 'literally' to support both interpretations


rules 7.3.3 gray box wrote:
Note that a few of the Objective chits have
no “secret” side—if a player draws one of
these as their secret Objective, tough luck:
it must be revealed as an open Objective.
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Paul Trad

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If you look at the chart where all the info is tracked, specifically the area of Green / Line / Elite plus the numbers from 2-6, this is where we put our National Attk/defn/ Recon markers and use an open track for the 5 objective ownership markers(some put those on the objectives on the board, but I feel this is clutter.

To the right of all that is where 'in effect Objective Chits' go: Open in the middle and secret to the relevant side. Leaving them 'in the bag' can be problematic later.

But, to each his/her own.
 
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Marty Sample
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One thing that I find helps is to use the bigger size Obj chits on the track, then I use the smaller size ones and put them on the specific Objective hexes on the map .
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You guys are awesome and I really appreciate your patience!
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