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Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » General

Subject: Dashboard size vs Spin counters rss

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Philip Mazzone
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Maspeth
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Has it been mentioned how big the character dashboards are ?

After watching some of the videos where they were using the circular spinner type counters, they seemed to be much more efficient in terms of keeping things to a minimum and taking up less table space. Neatly having a few smaller round dials to spin seems way better than larger player boards with yet an extra clip that slides up and down. After all, the game board space plus huge minis take up more than its fair share of room.
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Trent Y.
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Dashboards were selected because they provide all the information at a glance.

With a spinner, you had to turn it over to see the talents/powers. Additionally, you would not fully see all the 'stats' until you spun the spinner.

With a dashboard you can see what will happen if you take X damage. This may be useful if you have any powers that will prevent damage.

I think that the dashboard is much better than the spinner.
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Craig K
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They changed from the dials for two reasons:

1) The dials accidentally get rotated a lot.

2) It's an open information game(except your hand). Dashboards make it easier to read for opponents as well.

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Ben Clapperton
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Nothing to so with costs. The final dashboards will be double-sided and need to have plastic tooling for the clips. Having played with the dials, I can attest to their impracticality. The game board is only 2x2 and each player has one deck of cards, so it's not like there isn't space for the dashboards.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Xhawk wrote:
Has it been mentioned how big the character dashboards are ?

After watching some of the videos where they were using the circular spinner type counters, they seemed to be much more efficient in terms of keeping things to a minimum and taking up less table space. Neatly having a few smaller round dials to spin seems way better than larger player boards with yet an extra clip that slides up and down. After all, the game board space plus huge minis take up more than its fair share of room.

I think neither option is ideal.

The dials were much better looking - but I can imagine it not being very handy if you can't see what any damage would cause in stat change.

The dashboards don't look so good and the stat clips aren't 100% flat on the back. And yes, as they are big they will take up a lot of space, especially if you use bigger armies in a 2-player game or you have to keep track of monster stats in a scenario where you also play the AI.

Perhaps the best solution would have been dials with a semi-transparent front.
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Dave Smith
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If anything the boards will be more expensive to make being larger and having large plastic clips. They are also better as you can see all info to play the game, don't think being 1mm off laying flat will be an issue .
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Oak Wolf
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Interesting discussion. Just going to add where this come from.

The original Mythic battles used cards to represent the state of a unit. Each unit had a deck of face-up cards (1 card per HP). The unit abilities and stats evolved as damage was inflicted on the unit. Each damage made you move one card to the bottom of the deck until it reached 0 (unit destroyed).

The deck of cards could get a bit messy if people were not keeping them properly organised (you had 1 deck of card per unit). The artwork on these were amazing though, and a huge lot of the artwork that we can see on the new game is from the orginals.

So the dashboards and spinners were evolved to replace the deck of cards. The dashboards take more place than a deck of cards, but does display all the info. The spinner was less messy than the cards, but hid information until it was updated.

Each idea has pros and cons really. Tabletop management is an issue, though and i do wonder if the dashboard will not end up cloging the non-board space of the table (in addition to tokens, dice, etc.). The original mythic battles board as usually much smaller than 2x2.

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Freelance Police
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Also, if you design your own fanmade units, dashboards are easier to PnP.

Cthulhu Wars vs. Mystic Battles! goo
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Benoit VOGT
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Sybaris wrote:
Interesting discussion. Just going to add where this come from.

The original Mythic battles used cards to represent the state of a unit. Each unit had a deck of face-up cards (1 card per HP). The unit abilities and stats evolved as damage was inflicted on the unit. Each damage made you move one card to the bottom of the deck until it reached 0 (unit destroyed).

The deck of cards could get a bit messy if people were not keeping them properly organised (you had 1 deck of card per unit). The artwork on these were amazing though, and a huge lot of the artwork that we can see on the new game is from the orginals.

So the dashboards and spinners were evolved to replace the deck of cards. The dashboards take more place than a deck of cards, but does display all the info. The spinner was less messy than the cards, but hid information until it was updated.

Each idea has pros and cons really. Tabletop management is an issue, though and i do wonder if the dashboard will not end up cloging the non-board space of the table (in addition to tokens, dice, etc.). The original mythic battles board as usually much smaller than 2x2.




In comparison to the first Mythic Battles, the dashboards are a great improvement. Indeed, the deck of cards of the first game could take a lot time to sort out. Now the game is ready to play.

We contemplated at some point to use dials but there was a risk that they flipped over. This was not convenient as players may loose track of the stats of their Units. Also the dials had to be flipped to look at the Powers. We ran more than 800 public demoes and these issues were pointed out by some people.

This is why we came to the dashboards: stat clips do not flip over. You do not need to flip the dashboard to see the Power of the characters. In addition, you can see how stats evolve as your characters take damage.
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Ijon Tichy
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Benoit0905 wrote:

This is why we came to the dashboards: stat clips do not flip over. You do not need to flip the dashboard to see the Power of the characters. In addition, you can see how stats evolve as your characters take damage.

I'm really thrilled about the game (backed it), but I'm also a bit concerned the plastic clips could be a impractical gimmick. Wouldn't be a simple (nicely designed) marker next to the damage states similarly efficient to achieve your goals? There could be a little recess in the dashboard to prevent slipping of the marker...
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Oak Wolf
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I assumed that the clips were just placed on the dashboard with small rails to go up or down, i do hope they are not "fixed" otherwise it'll be hard to store those dashboards if they all keep the clips attached.
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Tyrone
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Have you considered resizing the stat cards so that they'd consume less space? based on the current pictures of the stat cards, there's still some wiggle-room for sizes to be changed without compromising the readability of the cards. HP bars could be scaled down, as well as the ability boxes and you'd still have more than enough room for all the ability texts.
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M. S.
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2 questions on the dashboards:

How big are the dashboard exactly, from shots arranged on a board I would guess something like 20-25cm wide?


How "stable" is the position of the clips, e.g., if you move the boards around and stuff?
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Aditya C
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Sybaris wrote:
I assumed that the clips were just placed on the dashboard with small rails to go up or down, i do hope they are not "fixed" otherwise it'll be hard to store those dashboards if they all keep the clips attached.


The clips are "fixed" so to speak. They interlock around the board. But they are detachable.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Turonee wrote:
Have you considered resizing the stat cards so that they'd consume less space? based on the current pictures of the stat cards, there's still some wiggle-room for sizes to be changed without compromising the readability of the cards. HP bars could be scaled down, as well as the ability boxes and you'd still have more than enough room for all the ability texts.

Curiously, to me the bigger the better. Adversaries can glance your stats from the other side of the table, the artwork is fantastic and it would be easier to manipulate. As long as its not too big to be impractical, I'm all for imposing pieces. Placed alongside the board I doubt they will take that much space anyway.
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M. S.
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zinho73 wrote:
...
Curiously, to me the bigger the better. Adversaries can glance your stats from the other side of the table, the artwork is fantastic and it would be easier to manipulate. As long as its not too big to be impractical, I'm all for imposing pieces. Placed alongside the board I doubt they will take that much space anyway.

it depends.
ok let's say they are 22x16cm a piece

one player 12 recruitment points.
let's assume 3 hero/monster cards
that means one player has 4 cards with ~1400cm^2
two players make 2800

or 4 players 8 RP let's say 2 heroes each + god = 12 player cards
= 4224cm^2

the map board is 60x60 = 3600
basically depending on setup you need about as much space for the player cards as for the map itself if you don't want to overlap, which you wouldn't want for the named reasons.

the point being, many of the advantages of the dashboards vs dials and card stacks might disappear if you have to stack them as well.

as far as I can see the biggest argument for the size are the talent text boxes. While many are more or less one liners others fill the respective box completely and probably can't be scaled down without scaling the font to a non readable level.

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Tyrone
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zinho73 wrote:
Curiously, to me the bigger the better. Adversaries can glance your stats from the other side of the table, the artwork is fantastic and it would be easier to manipulate. As long as its not too big to be impractical, I'm all for imposing pieces. Placed alongside the board I doubt they will take that much space anyway.


I agree that bigger game pieces are nice, but as M.S. has said, it all depends on the overall space that all the components will take up.

I have not seen all the components together in their true scale relative to an actual item at home such as a table to say if something is too big or too small, but it would be nice to have all game components in decent enough size so that you still get to see what you need to see without unnecessarily having to take up too much space. Again, as what M.S. has said, what good are the stat cards if you have to stack them because theyre too big. Remember, the problem worsens as more players enter the board.


Based on M.S.'s computations, I think it would also be nice if the stat cards wouldnt be so big that they 'drown out' the board's presence. The cards should complement the board (enhance its presence) because that is where all the action is, instead of taking too much attention away from it because of cards' sheer size.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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asgorn wrote:
zinho73 wrote:
...
Curiously, to me the bigger the better. Adversaries can glance your stats from the other side of the table, the artwork is fantastic and it would be easier to manipulate. As long as its not too big to be impractical, I'm all for imposing pieces. Placed alongside the board I doubt they will take that much space anyway.

it depends.
ok let's say they are 22x16cm a piece

one player 12 recruitment points.
let's assume 3 hero/monster cards
that means one player has 4 cards with ~1400cm^2
two players make 2800

or 4 players 8 RP let's say 2 heroes each + god = 12 player cards
= 4224cm^2

the map board is 60x60 = 3600
basically depending on setup you need about as much space for the player cards as for the map itself if you don't want to overlap, which you wouldn't want for the named reasons.

the point being, many of the advantages of the dashboards vs dials and card stacks might disappear if you have to stack them as well.

as far as I can see the biggest argument for the size are the talent text boxes. While many are more or less one liners others fill the respective box completely and probably can't be scaled down without scaling the font to a non readable level.

I agree it depends and that´s why I said as long as it is not impractical. And let´s not forget that you can arrange them in different ways to occupy space in a more intelligent manner. Yeah, some smaller tables might have a problem to accommodate the game, but this is par for the course with those types of game. To me, a big part of their appeal is table presence anyway.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Turonee wrote:
zinho73 wrote:
Curiously, to me the bigger the better. Adversaries can glance your stats from the other side of the table, the artwork is fantastic and it would be easier to manipulate. As long as its not too big to be impractical, I'm all for imposing pieces. Placed alongside the board I doubt they will take that much space anyway.


I agree that bigger game pieces are nice, but as M.S. has said, it all depends on the overall space that all the components will take up.

I have not seen all the components together in their true scale relative to an actual item at home such as a table to say if something is too big or too small, but it would be nice to have all game components in decent enough size so that you still get to see what you need to see without unnecessarily having to take up too much space. Again, as what M.S. has said, what good are the stat cards if you have to stack them because theyre too big. Remember, the problem worsens as more players enter the board.


Based on M.S.'s computations, I think it would also be nice if the stat cards wouldnt be so big that they 'drown out' the board's presence. The cards should complement the board (enhance its presence) because that is where all the action is, instead of taking too much attention away from it because of cards' sheer size.

I really do not think the cards will draw more attention than the board itself in its current state (might be wrong, but I do not think so).

Also, if you are craving for space and have to stack them, their functionality is still better than the dials, because you can still browse quickly all stats (your enemies will have to ask for them though). And you can do it in a intelligent form: removing from the table dead and not yet in play cards, bringing to the forefront cards as requested or needed and so on. Yes, you would have to move things around but you would have too with the dials. On the other hand, with the current setup, if you have the space, things are neatly displayed.

In practice, if the marker design is good (it might be weird to handle, i don't know) and size is handled with common sense, make it as big as it can possibly be I say
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