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I just played this game for the first time tonight, and after coming home I decided to read up the rules to see if anything was played wrong, and to look into the available races/powers. Sorcerers stood out as utterly insane, so I might be misunderstanding them.

The way I read it, for any opponent's active race adjacent to my sorcerers, if they are alone, I can swap their token for one of mine from the tray.

Normally you need 2 tokens to conquer a space, with this power I need 0, and I even get a free token from the tray for it. And I can do this possibly 4 times in a turn with ideal positioning in a 5-player game? The only real downside I see is that it's so insane that people will probably focus you down.

Of course, you do need to be adjacent to a solo token of your opponents, but you can use normal conquest to get adjacent to them. I also noticed the Underworld power makes caverns adjacent to each other, meaning your sorcerer power becomes long ranged. Ordinarily I wouldn't expect you to be able to make use of the sorcerer's power more than once or twice per turn, but with this, 3 or sometimes even 4 seems like an actual possibility. Gaining that many tokens while at the same covering a lot of ground seems incredible!

So... am I wrong in how they work? Am I right but am I overestimating how strong it really is? Or are they indeed one of the strongest races there are? I was surprised I haven't seen them mentioned on here.
 
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Ian Toltz
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You understand correctly and sorcerers are quite powerful, especially with certain powers like Flying.

In practice, when sorcerers are on the table people will try to avoid leaving a single token by itself and will focus on the sorcerers. They have a huge target painted on their forehead.
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Richard Smeltzer
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Underworld Sorcerors and Flying Sorcerors are awesome combos. However, other players can usually avoid leaving single race tokens (most race/power combos won't spread that thinly very quickly) or can go into decline.
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Yeah, I suppose it's something people can fairly easy play around. In the game I played it seemed like there would have been a lot of opportunities if I'd had it, but most of the players were first-timers, so that would have helped.

Flying doesn't actually work with them in a direct manner, right? Underworld states cavern regions are considered adjacent to each other, but flying does not say anything like that. Of course, you can do a regular conquest with flying to get in position to use your power.

I was thinking other possibilities would be Seafaring, as getting into the two big waters would give you a lot of reach. Or, alternatively, some defensive power to make it really inconvenient for people to target you down, which would mean you could keep expanding your tokens. Although I suppose the better you do with it the more people will focus you, and the less vulnerable they'll be to your power.

Actually looking forward to try this race now, though. Probably will be a while before I get the chance to.
 
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J
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Flying does work. This has been long long established and Flying Sorcerers is considered one of the best combinations in the game.

Ultimately people will be forced to leave units alone however how they do so and doing so in such a way that Sorcerers can't reach them easily is what's really important. Usually you'd be lucky to get 2 conversions in 1 turn assuming your opponents play smartly
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Adam Lucas
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Sorcerers don't really bother me. If I am going up against them I like to obliterate that player's in-decline race instead. That usually entices their player to go into decline with the sorcerers.
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Tom O'Brien
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Other players can mitigate this by not leaving single tokens near the sorcerers along with using your in decline race as a buffer. Also keep in mind that this ability can only be used once per player per turn.
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Désirée Greverud
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allstar64 wrote:
Flying does work. This has been long long established and Flying Sorcerers is considered one of the best combinations in the game.

Ultimately people will be forced to leave units alone however how they do so and doing so in such a way that Sorcerers can't reach them easily is what's really important. Usually you'd be lucky to get 2 conversions in 1 turn assuming your opponents play smartly

to further elaborate:
the sorcerer's ability doesn't specifically require "adjacency" to work. It simply is a type of conquest. Once per turn per opponent, you can conquer a region by swapping out a single token. Normally, to conquer, you need to be adjacent. With "Flying", the adjacency requirement for being allowed to conquer a region is removed. So now, you can conquer anywhere even if you aren't adjacent to them.

Flying Giants for example don't get their racial benefit when flying (i.e. when attacking a region not adjacent) because the racial benefit itself specifically requires adjacency.
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DragonsDream wrote:
allstar64 wrote:
Flying does work. This has been long long established and Flying Sorcerers is considered one of the best combinations in the game.

Ultimately people will be forced to leave units alone however how they do so and doing so in such a way that Sorcerers can't reach them easily is what's really important. Usually you'd be lucky to get 2 conversions in 1 turn assuming your opponents play smartly

to further elaborate:
the sorcerer's ability doesn't specifically require "adjacency" to work. It simply is a type of conquest.


Has this been confirmed by the creators? Because the rules are worded differently:

"The token your Sorcerers replaces must be the only race token in its Region and that Region must be adjacent to one of your Sorcerers"

Flying doesn't make all tiles adjacent. It says you can conquer regions that are not adjacent.
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Richard Smeltzer
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Gnoevoet wrote:
Has this been confirmed by the creators?


I swear it has, but I cannot find where. This thread collected together all the various rules clarifications and it's on there, but as for where the creators said this, I don't know.
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Bagpuss42 wrote:
Gnoevoet wrote:
Has this been confirmed by the creators?


I swear it has, but I cannot find where. This thread collected together all the various rules clarifications and it's on there, but as for where the creators said this, I don't know.


It's here, apparently: https://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=16839

This irks me a little bit as it's most definitely inconsistent with the wording in the rules, but I'll take their word for it In the "Discover the game" bit for Smallworld it also specifically mentions the Flying Sorcerers.

It's also very strange that when entering the board, you cannot use the ability, but if you have flying (when entering the board) you can.

In any case, one more question (sorry this isn't in the rules subforum ). If I have no more tokens left, but I can still convert adjacent regions, can I still use my power to conquer those regions?

I'd guess not considering this snippet from the rules:

"Important Note: Regardless of a Race and/or Special Power
benefit, a player must always have at least one Race token
available to initiate a new Conquest."

Which again feels like a very strange decision because it means you have to keep a spare token left over just to use the ability...
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Damjan Makuc
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Sorcerers are strong, but this just means people playing against them need to adjust strategy. But they are not the only one powerful... Last game about a month ago I had Ransacking Slingmen, who were also pretty crazy arrrh
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Mike
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How does it work in the App?
 
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While we are on the subject of Sorcerer's, I have a question about attacking regions containing a single token with enhanced protection.

The rulebook states that when a Sorcerer attacks a region with a single token guarded by a troll lair, fortress, or mountain, these protections are ignored. Yet a region which contains a single token with an encampment is safe from the Sorcerer attack.

Have I interpreted this correctly? What about hole-in-the-grounds? Do they protect a single token from the Sorcerer attack?
 
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Ian Toltz
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I think the rulebook is just being unhelpfully specific in that case. The idea is that a single race token is vulnerable to sorcerers, even if the normal cost to take over that territory is increased by the presence of mountains or other fortifications.

On the other hand, if the region is immune to conquering, like if there's a dragon token there, sorcerers can't take it over.
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Désirée Greverud
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Asmor wrote:
I think the rulebook is just being unhelpfully specific in that case. The idea is that a single race token is vulnerable to sorcerers, even if the normal cost to take over that territory is increased by the presence of mountains or other fortifications.

On the other hand, if the region is immune to conquering, like if there's a dragon token there, sorcerers can't take it over.

immune is immune. always. so holes in the ground and dragons can never be conquered.

The reason for the specificness re: bivouacking is because that one particular defensive tile represents the equivalent of a race token. It's Amazons in reverse - race tokens you can only use on defense. Since it's a power rather than a race though, they needed a generic token so any race could use it.
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Christopher Bonuel
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Gnoevoet wrote:
I can do this possibly 4 times in a turn with ideal positioning in a 5-player game?


And can each of the 4 times be against the same person? Or does each attack have to be against a different person?
 
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Désirée Greverud
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ultimatefilipino wrote:
Gnoevoet wrote:
I can do this possibly 4 times in a turn with ideal positioning in a 5-player game?


And can each of the 4 times be against the same person? Or does each attack have to be against a different person?
once per opponent per turn. so each turn, you can convert 1 of each opponents tokens to a sorcerer.
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Rapp Scallion
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Well, what people usually tend to do (and it is usually the case if anyone chooses an OP combo) is to team up against those Sorcerers, beating them each turn, without leaving single active race tokens, and focusing on the declining race of that player. As a result, those players will not get as much points, as they would do normally, but since they all won't it's fine, especially that the OP player will be forced to call those sorcerers declined anyway.
But be careful when teaming up against other players, as you may be double-crossed
 
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Cris Whetstone
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We ran into the Flying Sorcerers tonight. I would have gone into decline and taken them a turn earlier but I am a bit new and didn't realize what exactly they were until it was too late. The three races in front of them were not very good at all so it was an easy choice to spend some coins on them.

We joked about them being 'OP' but they do seem pretty close to being overpowered with the combination of powers. Sure people need to team up on them but it also forces you to turtle up. I would think giving them a troop or two less would be in order.
 
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