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Subject: Well, I guess I was right 18 months ago. rss

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Mac Mcleod
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I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.

FWIW, I don't think Bernie would have been electable either.

The evangelical vote wouldn't have changed because they would have still been about abortion.

The angry high school educated male vote wouldn't have changed either.

But I didn't consider him unelectable before the race started.
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well. I mean, they polled poorly ... right? lol.
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well.


Absolutely she would have.
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Terwox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well.


Absolutely she would have.


Trump is the only one who could have beaten her in any scenario.

Edit: again: I reiterate: I don't fucking trust trump as far as I can throw him. I ain't a fanboy. Simple impartial analysis.
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Tyler Gobe
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Koldfoot wrote:
Terwox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well.


Absolutely she would have.


Trump is the only one who could have beaten her in any scenario.

Edit: again: I reiterate: I don't fucking trust trump as far as I can throw him. I ain't a fanboy. Simple impartial analysis.
I agree with that. He tapped into a deep, anti-establishment anger that was just enough to carry him over. Now, I didn't think that would be enough to cancel out the countless terrible things he's said, let alone sexual assault allegations, but I was wrong. This will be an election that will be looked back on for some time.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Terwox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well.


Absolutely she would have.


Trump is the only one who could have beaten her in any scenario.

Edit: again: I reiterate: I don't fucking trust trump as far as I can throw him. I ain't a fanboy. Simple impartial analysis.


I dunno. If the person running against Clinton wasn't actually corrupt too, that's a pretty strong case.
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Terwox wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Terwox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well.


Absolutely she would have.


Trump is the only one who could have beaten her in any scenario.

Edit: again: I reiterate: I don't fucking trust trump as far as I can throw him. I ain't a fanboy. Simple impartial analysis.


I dunno. If the person running against Clinton wasn't actually corrupt too, that's a pretty strong case.


I guarantee you the repub would have been a corrupt rapist before Election Day .

Look at trumps rape accuser. Dropped the case on Friday before the election. At that point it looked as if the charge had done the damage it was supposed to do. You will note that bit of news was not even a minor story. I ask, did you know this bit of info?

Give me a name. Who would have won? Carson may have been rape-proof, but he was never going to win. Minor tarnish would have sufficed.
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TylerGoble1 wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Terwox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well.


Absolutely she would have.


Trump is the only one who could have beaten her in any scenario.

Edit: again: I reiterate: I don't fucking trust trump as far as I can throw him. I ain't a fanboy. Simple impartial analysis.
I agree with that. He tapped into a deep, anti-establishment anger that was just enough to carry him over. Now, I didn't think that would be enough to cancel out the countless terrible things he's said, let alone sexual assault allegations, but I was wrong. This will be an election that will be looked back on for some time.


Allow me to add: no one else would have hammered the "corrupt Hillary" mantra. Bill would have been off limits. "You would be in prison"? Huge applause line in homes across America. THAT is what people remember from the debates. Who else would have dared say that?

All of the others would have stayed above the email scam and let it speak for itself.

All of the others would have apologized forever for the democrat violence at their rallies, as if their supporters were the criminals. I waited for trump to fall into that trap and he never took the bait.

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Bwian, just
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Koldfoot wrote:
Look at trumps rape accuser. Dropped the case on Friday before the election. At that point it looked as if the charge had done the damage it was supposed to do. You will note that bit of news was not even a minor story. I ask, did you know this bit of info?

I knew it. The problem with that logic is, with a court date in December, there's no reason not to drop the case the Wednesday after the election if it's a straight smear campaign.

So I'll take the victim at her word instead: she got scared off due to all the death threats. Especially because the link telling me about the case being dropped included several pictures of the accuser, who by the court documents is supposed to be anonymous.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Terwox wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Terwox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.


I was the one late to the party?


Well, I never had an opinion on Biden.

Now I question if Clinton would have lost to most the other republican candidates as well.


Absolutely she would have.


Trump is the only one who could have beaten her in any scenario.

Edit: again: I reiterate: I don't fucking trust trump as far as I can throw him. I ain't a fanboy. Simple impartial analysis.


I dunno. If the person running against Clinton wasn't actually corrupt too, that's a pretty strong case.


I guarantee you the repub would have been a corrupt rapist before Election Day .

Look at trumps rape accuser. Dropped the case on Friday before the election. At that point it looked as if the charge had done the damage it was supposed to do. You will note that bit of news was not even a minor story. I ask, did you know this bit of info?

Give me a name. Who would have won? Carson may have been rape-proof, but he was never going to win. Minor tarnish would have sufficed.


One of twelve cases dropped before the election?

I think Rubio would have won. Maybe Bush. Cruz would have won (which thank God he didn't.) Though I like Graham, he couldn't have won.

But Clinton wanted Trump -- the "pied piper" strategy -- and lost.

I'd like to believe Carson would have lost because he said too many stupid things, while not at the same time being a demagogue.
 
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Cruz had actual conservative credentials. Compare that to Romney or Trump who each had none, and were brutalized as extreme conservatives for back alley abortions, and bigotry. Then see what they did to Trump. Mischaracterize his statements into Nazi hate speech, or buffoonery.

Cruz would have never confronted the media on those charges. Supporters would have pulled their hair out waiting for a response to the nonsense. Supporters would have been discouraged and not supported him. Trump supporters were energized by him calling out the media.

Trump ended up with 60+% of the independents. Cruz might have gotten 35%. The media would have savaged him as far too extreme.

Rubio. Not a chance. Did you know about his credit card fraud on a state issued card while he was in the legislature? I thought not. It was minor news in conservative media when he looked like a front runner. I suspect the major media decided to sit on it in case he was nominated.
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I think Clinton loses to most of the field. This was a change election and she had literally no change to offer period, and additionally literally the only times she ever "scored" in the debates was by taking shots at Trump for saying insane shit.

Trump's drawing power was worse than Robo-Mormon Romney. I'm sure any other candidate the Big R ran other than possibly "nearly drooling on myself stupid" Carson could have beaten her.
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Mike Stiles
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maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.

FWIW, I don't think Bernie would have been electable either.

The evangelical vote wouldn't have changed because they would have still been about abortion.

The angry high school educated male vote wouldn't have changed either.

But I didn't consider him unelectable before the race started.


And I have to admit I was wrong, I thought she could clean the clock of any Republican they ran :p

I think Clinton ended up making it easy for the GOP to drive down voter participation (as the charts show pretty well). General unfavorables for Clinton + the Clownshow effect made it so Dems didn't vote... and that's all it takes.

~~~

In the case of Bernie, I'm prone to think he would have done pretty well. Pretty clear the people wanted a populist Demagogue this time around, and he's the only one the Dems have offered for quite a while.
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Trump-Clinton was the only match up Republicans stood a chance.

Anything else would have been a very traditional race. As RSP loves to point out, repubs have demographics against them.
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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Bernie would have mopped the floor with Trump. Bernie offered people something to get excited about, something to vote FOR. Hillary didn't. She was just "Vote against Trump," and while that gives people a lot of impetus to spam forums with threads, it isn't such a great driver to get out and vote. Bernie had people energized and that would have carried on forward.

Hillary was just a toxic candidate. The only Dem who could have lost to Trump.
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Mike Stiles
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GameCrossing wrote:
Bernie would have mopped the floor with Trump. Bernie offered people something to get excited about, something to vote FOR. Hillary didn't. She was just "Vote against Trump," and while that gives people a lot of impetus to spam forums with threads, it isn't such a great driver to get out and vote. Bernie had people energized and that would have carried on forward.

Hillary was just a toxic candidate. The only Dem who could have lost to Trump.


Your first point is just not true -- except perhaps the "Bernie gave people something to get excited about." People projected what they needed to on the Clinton campaign, she had a lot of positive things to say, but 'not Trump' was a nice projection for people who legit hated trump but still didn't want to vote for clinton. (as it turns out, a large number of those people ended up not voting at all).

I feel I've covered the 'excitement' thing though. Sanders was a lesser Trump. He's not a pathological liar or utter buffoon the way Trump is, but he was using the same means (populism and whipping up anger) to the same ends (shortcut to political influence).

This is the year of populism across the globe. Brexit, Dutarte, Sanders, Trump. It all feels like emanations from the same source.
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James King
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maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.

No, you weren't, because you were presuming an election year without any major aberration and/or meaningful wild-card factors would be thrown into the mix.

Your speculation therefore was also not correct because the FBI Director's insertion of partisan politics into the final 12 days before the election introduced a major misleading wild-card factor whose impact has yet to be fully researched.

As of this writing, it's speculated that Clinton's final popular-vote count could exceed that of Donald Trump by as much as +/- 2,000,000 votes. Her popular vote count already exceeds that the difference held by Al Gore versus George W. Bush in 2000.



 
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maxo-texas wrote:
I said I considered Hillary Clinton unelectable.

FWIW, I don't think Bernie would have been electable either.

The evangelical vote wouldn't have changed because they would have still been about abortion.

The angry high school educated male vote wouldn't have changed either.

But I didn't consider him unelectable before the race started.


You just hate those groups, don't you.

BADTHINK!
 
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Trey Stone
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GameCrossing wrote:
Bernie would have mopped the floor with Trump. Bernie offered people something to get excited about, something to vote FOR. Hillary didn't. She was just "Vote against Trump," and while that gives people a lot of impetus to spam forums with threads, it isn't such a great driver to get out and vote. Bernie had people energized and that would have carried on forward.

Hillary was just a toxic candidate. The only Dem who could have lost to Trump.


Not sure about that. He offered the Far Left something to get excited about, which caused the whole party to lurch that way.

I challenge anyone to demonstrate that has general appeal.
 
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tstone wrote:
Not sure about that. He offered the Far Left something to get excited about, which caused the whole party to lurch that way.

I challenge anyone to demonstrate that has general appeal.

clinton did not run on a "far left" platform and even if she did it would have hardly been convincing given here public/private persona comment - on the other hand trump regularly embraced the black hispanic and lgbt community (a group you hate) in his speeches
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GameCrossing wrote:
Bernie would have mopped the floor with Trump. Bernie offered people something to get excited about, something to vote FOR. Hillary didn't. She was just "Vote against Trump," and while that gives people a lot of impetus to spam forums with threads, it isn't such a great driver to get out and vote. Bernie had people energized and that would have carried on forward.

Hillary was just a toxic candidate. The only Dem who could have lost to Trump.


I don't think Bernie would have picked up those rust belt states. His change is, "give me more free stuff." Blue collar workers distrust that. Trump would have nailed him to the wall as a hippy-communist.

The Dems biggest issue this election was there was no choice. Hillary locked down that primary nomination before it began by having barely anyone run against her. You made fun of Republicans because we had so many choices, but damn, we had choices.

I also think we keep under estimating Trump. We keep acting like his win was some big fluke and only due to the mistake of the Dems. Hey, maybe. But he won. so maybe he and his campaign team know something we don't.
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galad2003 wrote:


I also think we keep under estimating Trump. We keep acting like his win was some big fluke and only due to the mistake of the Dems. Hey, maybe. But he won. so maybe he and his campaign team know something we don't.


Yeah, he won. But even Trump was surprised.
 
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single sentences wrote:
tstone wrote:
Not sure about that. He offered the Far Left something to get excited about, which caused the whole party to lurch that way.

I challenge anyone to demonstrate that has general appeal.

clinton did not run on a "far left" platform and even if she did it would have hardly been convincing given here public/private persona comment - on the other hand trump regularly embraced the black hispanic and lgbt community (a group you hate) in his speeches


"i don't hate them i've just done a series of mental backflips to arrive at the position that my religion is a minority one that needs to be protected and their so-called 'lifestyle' is not because reasons"

"also i will reply and say the same thing over and over until you're bored"
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I think Clinton loses to most of the field. This was a change election and she had literally no change to offer period, and additionally literally the only times she ever "scored" in the debates was by taking shots at Trump for saying insane shit.


This. After 8 years of Democrat in office, I thought there was going to be a GOP president for sure. I rolled my eyes when I heard that Hillary was going to run and then watched appalled when the Democratic party apparently discouraged anyone else but Queen Clinton from running. Sigh. You'd think her lackluster performance in the primary 8 years ago should have been their first clue.
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