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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » General

Subject: Skirmish balance. rss

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Marco Fattimiei
Italy
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I love this game and play mainly the skirmish mode, both with friends (1vs1 or 4 players) or even my 7 yo son since it's an easy and fast game.
That said I've something to complain about skirmish, and I would like to know your opinions before going out and buying the next expansions.

The new expansions are always cool add on to our games, but the balance of the game is going worst with every new add on.

When the core game was out, a few units were overpowered (mostly fixed later with the errata) but all were usable: I saw many lists with vader, Weiss, Boba... now there is no reason at all to take most of characters in the first wave/base game.

Do you think Fantasy Flight will fix this someday? (if you agree a fix is needed)

what could we do meanwhile?

In our Group we will probably try a few games with a 15-20% cut in all "unusable" deployment cards. what to you think of:

Vader 18 ->15
Weiss 16 ->13
RG champion 15 ->12
Chewbacca 15 ->12
At-ST 14 ->12
Boba 13->11
Ig88 12 ->10
Han solo 12-->10
kayn 10->8
fenn 9->7
biv 9->7
gaarkan 8->7
other?...

Would you use such nerfed Deployment Cards?
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Jimmie Andersson
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Uuurrh! I let him in, uuuhh, was that not cool? Arrrarrh...
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I have been thinking of something like this as well, mostly for Iggy, Boba and also Dengar. Maybe a bit too much on Chewie and RGC for my taste, looking forward for more replies to this...
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Rico P
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I didn't touch on Fenn, Biv, and Gaar

Yes it's very tempting to say "Let's change it!" simply because we don't feel the cost is justified, but now you'll also have to take into account of other combinations. So let's say in your example, I highly doubt Gaarkhan + Gideon == Han Solo. Heck I think Gaarkhan would win even if we have a 1v1 between Gaar vs. Han


I play with those costs
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Ed Palacio
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Well, most of the games with expansions usually have :unusable" cards or characters. What in MTG is called fillers...However, for a game like this, I can see how important it is NOT to have these fillers.

On the same note, Someone mentioned to me that the point scoring system could change after worlds, where every single figure would add VP, for example: eStorms would give 3 points each instead of 9 for the whole Deployment card, so Hero or unique figures can have a chance against hordes of troopers. IMHO, i think this could be a great change of pace for Skirmish.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Similar to X-Wing, I bet we'll see some "adjustment" attachments coming out for the original Heroes. The trend seems to be to make new heroes more "cost effective" than the normal grunts, instead of a one-for-one. With that in mind, I bet there will be some negative costs, or major boost, to the old heroes.

In the meanttime, just use the upcoming Rancor

-shnar
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Marco Fattimiei
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my impression is that the designers used a different system for early balance (campaign?) in particular for high level single characters.

Even if this is evident to everyone it looks like they don't want to admit this "error" or don't want to waist time giving us new cards/faq.

My idea was to made a % drop of their points, because really none take them as they are now (unless you want to grant a sort of handicap like in golf...)

Ricope, you made a step forward comparing single stats and playtesting them, this is what you got (copy and past from the other forum, I added the points decreased from the original value):



ricope wrote:

List of all changes I've made (and playtested):

AT-ST 10 (-4)
Darth Vader 13 (-5)

Han Solo 8 (-4)
Chewbacca 12 (-3)
IG88 8 (-4)
Weiss 12 (-4)
RGC 12 (-3)

Boba Fett 10 (-3)
Kayn Somos 7 (-3)

Dengar 6 (-1)
Sorin 6, (-2) add "Imperial General: when defending, roll both black & white defense die and pick which one to apply"[/url]

personally I wouldn't change the stats or we will all have a different game, I will just stay with the original deplyment card with fixed cost.

ricope wrote:
I didn't touch on Fenn, Biv, and Gaar

Yes it's very tempting to say "Let's change it!" simply because we don't feel the cost is justified, but now you'll also have to take into account of other combinations. So let's say in your example, I highly doubt Gaarkhan + Gideon == Han Solo. Heck I think Gaarkhan would win even if we have a 1v1 between Gaar vs. Han


I play with those [url=https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/230265-old-stuff-needs-fixing-for-skirmish/?p=2422005]costs


In your comparing/testing does anyone wants to take fenn, biv or gaark at 9 over "fixed" ig88/han or bossk or obiwan? With at least1 point drop they will be more usable (maybe 2 with biv)

Vader is almost an impossible to kill guy, at 13 it will be an auto-include in any imperial list, am I wrong?

@Ed Palacio= I take your point, and agree with it, but again the old characters are so unbalanced. there is no way bossk, for example, is even close in balance with han or ig88... I actually think he is close or better and cost 4 point less!
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Rico P
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A little thing to note is that we play with a lot of proxy cards, so sometimes we play with lists that would be a financial nightmare if everything was real cards

Fenn was pretty popular in the Ranger list
I'm pretty sure there was once the Rebel player debated on whether taking Han Solo or Gaar

Vader at 13 is definitely not an auto-include. Don't forget Imperials can also take AT-ST (10), Tank (10), Inqui (9), and Rebel's Chewie is a pretty good counter to him - I actually had some hard time as Imperial running against a Chewie list without Vader. eStorm doesn't hurt him much and he buffs everyone around so I want Chewie dead ASAP

I'd agree regarding Sorin. I've added Imperial General sometime around Wave 5 which was wayyyy before Adv Comm and those fancy Vehicles came out, but I haven't found a sweet spot for him yet. I stick by with Kayn's 7 though - with AdvComm he's at 8, not a huge loss if he dies, but he still cost almost a squad of eStorm and opponent wants to kill him ASAP which fits his role
 
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Nick Vance
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The designers stated in this podcast interview that they know early unique figure costs are a problem but can't comment on future products. Reading between the lines I'm pretty sure they would like to do something about it.
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Andrew Sinfield
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One important thing for people to remember is that FFG are a business. They are trying to make money. Releasing 'fixed' characters doesn't really make them much money - only really any hold outs who refuse to buy someone like Han because hes not good in skirmish, which I imagine is a fairly small section of the playerbase. In contrast, it costs them money on development etc for play testing. So, it's not going to be as simple as just releasing an errata. And the idea that they aren't aware of it or wouldn't like to fix it is kind of silly.

Also the game is ongojng. Not expecting some element of power creep/some of the old toys being made obsolete is a little unreasonable. It happens in pretty much everything. And FFG is usually at least decent at trying to avoid it, rather than actively pushing it to sell more product.

What they are likely to do is release new versions of main characters like Endor Han/Chewie, or just a new Vader/Boba etc. Other wise we are probably see some kind of 'patch' for high cost figures, but it'll probably be cards packaged with new products rather than part of a FAQ etc. We've already seen it somewhat with campaign, with Murne's ability to reduce the cost of allies, and the new JP deck enhancing villains (though the main issue with both of them is whether they are better used on already effective units).

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