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Subject: Screw Obamacare. rss

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I can't even get my "Cadillac" insurance plan to cover a fucking physical.
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The ACA or Obamacare is completely a pork-belly deal for the insurance companies and always was. A single payer system with annual bidding on prices of drugs, equipment, procedures, etc., is the only way to fix the US medical system so that people do not live in fear of financial ruin if they get sick and yet are not overburdened with medical insurance, etc. Medical care is part of public infrastructure no different than fire departments, police, and highways.
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Not to mention, they wont cover the TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR epidural from child birth.
They USED to.
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I'm totally fine with people hating on Obamacare -- it's an ugly mess of a bill and not anything like what I wanted, as a left-leaning voter. I personally believe that healthcare is too important to be left to the so-called "free market," though I suspect you'd think otherwise.

My question, then, is this: Obamacare, for all its faults, did some things very right. Specifically, insurance companies needed to be told that people with pre-existing and chronic medical conditions needed reasonably priced access to healthcare, same as everyone else. I have friends who rely on insurance, previously inaccessible to them before Obamacare, who are terrified that things are going to go back to the way things were. What about them? Reforming Obamacare is one thing, but repealing it outright without a solid plan to replace it could leave lots and lots of desperate Americans on the hook for thousands of dollars in medical expenses that literally keep them alive.

What would you like to see happen the day after Obamacare is repealed, and how would you keep vulnerable Americans alive?
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the pete wrote:
I'm totally fine with people hating on Obamacare -- it's an ugly mess of a bill and not anything like what I wanted, as a left-leaning voter. I personally believe that healthcare is too important to be left to the so-called "free market," though I suspect you'd think otherwise.

My question, then, is this: Obamacare, for all its faults, did some things very right. Specifically, insurance companies needed to be told that people with pre-existing and chronic medical conditions needed reasonably priced access to healthcare, same as everyone else. I have friends who rely on insurance, previously inaccessible to them before Obamacare, who are terrified that things are going to go back to the way things were. What about them? Reforming Obamacare is one thing, but repealing it outright without a solid plan to replace it could leave lots and lots of desperate Americans on the hook for thousands of dollars in medical expenses that literally keep them alive.

What would you like to see happen the day after Obamacare is repealed, and how would you keep vulnerable Americans alive?


Yeah I suppose its better to give insurance to everyone, and then not cover fucking anything.
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Pete;

Excellent point. A single payer system must also cover literally everyone.
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TheDashi wrote:
Not to mention, they wont cover the TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR epidural from child birth.
They USED to.

They do cover it, but not until you meet the deductible. This is exactly what you wanted right? The difference between what the Republicans propose and what we have now is that instead of the maximum cost being limited by a deductible, it will be limited by your bankruptcy. Once you go bankrupt the goverment will step in, until then, your healthcare savings account will have to do.

I've had this same argument with others, and probably you, here on RSP before. Your belief that the increasing deductibles are all Obamacare's fault is questionable. The cost of healthcare insurance has been going up like clockwork for years. The healthcare industry, in an attempt to reduce costs, decided that it makes sense to force individuals to pay a bunch of money out of pocket to discourage them from using insurance. This isn't something that is encoded in the ACA, it is a choice the healthcare insurance industry has made to control costs.

If you don't like it, the fix isn't to let the Republicans change the rules, because they'll just make even more of the cost come out of your pocket. The fix is single payer healthcare.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Not to mention, they wont cover the TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR epidural from child birth.
They USED to.

They do cover it, but not until you meet the deductible. This is exactly what you wanted right? The difference between what the Republicans propose and what we have now is that instead of the maximum cost being limited by a deductible, it will be limited by your bankruptcy. Once you go bankrupt the goverment will step in, until then, your healthcare savings account will have to do.

I've had this same argument with others, and probably you, here on RSP before. Your belief that the increasing deductibles are all Obamacare's fault is questionable. The cost of healthcare insurance has been going up like clockwork for years. The healthcare industry, in an attempt to reduce costs, decided that it makes sense to force individuals to pay a bunch of money out of pocket to discourage them from using insurance. This isn't something that is encoded in the ACA, it is a choice the healthcare insurance industry has made to control costs.

If you don't like it, the fix isn't to let the Republicans change the rules, because they'll just make even more of the cost come out of your pocket. The fix is single payer healthcare.



Hey, guess what, I did meet the deductible. The 10 times worse deductible that I used to have.
When did all this change?
OH yeah, after the passing of the ACA.
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The general fallacy that uninformed voters make it the assumption that it is the ACA that is causing all of these cost problems. It isn't. The cost problems already existed. The ACA was an attempt to expand healthcare insurance. Any claims that it was going to reduce costs was obviously nonsense since the bill didn't have anything in it to reduce costs. You can't reduce costs by expanding coverage.

The problem with the ACA is that it did not go far enough. The ACA is perfectly fine really, what is needed is additional laws which would actually do something about the costs. That said, such laws are going to be extremely difficult to get past the healthcare lobby, especially when that lobby primary pays into the pockets of Republican congressmen.

The primary accomplishment that Trump and the Republicans will make by getting rid of the ACA is just to drive a whole lot of people into bankruptcy and onto Medicare. Getting rid of the ACA, by itself, isn't going to do a damn thing to reduce costs.
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Not to mention, they wont cover the TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR epidural from child birth.
They USED to.

They do cover it, but not until you meet the deductible. This is exactly what you wanted right? The difference between what the Republicans propose and what we have now is that instead of the maximum cost being limited by a deductible, it will be limited by your bankruptcy. Once you go bankrupt the goverment will step in, until then, your healthcare savings account will have to do.

I've had this same argument with others, and probably you, here on RSP before. Your belief that the increasing deductibles are all Obamacare's fault is questionable. The cost of healthcare insurance has been going up like clockwork for years. The healthcare industry, in an attempt to reduce costs, decided that it makes sense to force individuals to pay a bunch of money out of pocket to discourage them from using insurance. This isn't something that is encoded in the ACA, it is a choice the healthcare insurance industry has made to control costs.

If you don't like it, the fix isn't to let the Republicans change the rules, because they'll just make even more of the cost come out of your pocket. The fix is single payer healthcare.



Hey, guess what, I did meet the deductible. The 10 times worse deductible that I used to have.
When did all this change?
OH yeah, after the passing of the ACA.

Correlation isn't causation. In any case, it didn't happen the year the ACA was passed, or the year after, or the year after that. The insurance companies were already moving in the direction of higher deductibles before the ACA was even passed. The fact that you didn't pay any attention to what was going on in the healthcare industry likely has more to do with your political leanings combined with your need for medical care prior to the passage of the ACA.
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sfox wrote:
The general fallacy that uninformed voters make it the assumption that it is the ACA that is causing all of these cost problems. It isn't. The cost problems already existed. The ACA was an attempt to expand healthcare insurance. Any claims that it was going to reduce costs was obviously nonsense since the bill didn't have anything in it to reduce costs. You can't reduce costs by expanding coverage.

The problem with the ACA is that it did not go far enough. The ACA is perfectly fine really, what is needed is additional laws which would actually do something about the costs. That said, such laws are going to be extremely difficult to get past the healthcare lobby, especially when that lobby primary pays into the pockets of Republican congressmen.

The primary accomplishment that Trump and the Republicans will make by getting rid of the ACA is just to drive a whole lot of people into bankruptcy and onto Medicare. Getting rid of the ACA, by itself, isn't going to do a damn thing to reduce costs.


Look at it from a normal person point of view.
BEFORE OBAMACARE, I could get a physical covered on my health insurance.
My DEDUCTIBLE was TEN TIMES lower.
My max out of pocket was TEN TIMES LOWER.
I paid LESS per month, BY FAR.

I cant even get a fucking physical covered on my fucking health insurance.
I hope Trump repeals the shit out of this garbage.
But, its not like we can go back.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Not to mention, they wont cover the TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR epidural from child birth.
They USED to.

They do cover it, but not until you meet the deductible. This is exactly what you wanted right? The difference between what the Republicans propose and what we have now is that instead of the maximum cost being limited by a deductible, it will be limited by your bankruptcy. Once you go bankrupt the goverment will step in, until then, your healthcare savings account will have to do.

I've had this same argument with others, and probably you, here on RSP before. Your belief that the increasing deductibles are all Obamacare's fault is questionable. The cost of healthcare insurance has been going up like clockwork for years. The healthcare industry, in an attempt to reduce costs, decided that it makes sense to force individuals to pay a bunch of money out of pocket to discourage them from using insurance. This isn't something that is encoded in the ACA, it is a choice the healthcare insurance industry has made to control costs.

If you don't like it, the fix isn't to let the Republicans change the rules, because they'll just make even more of the cost come out of your pocket. The fix is single payer healthcare.



Hey, guess what, I did meet the deductible. The 10 times worse deductible that I used to have.
When did all this change?
OH yeah, after the passing of the ACA.

Correlation isn't causation. In any case, it didn't happen the year the ACA was passed, or the year after, or the year after that. The insurance companies were already moving in the direction of higher deductibles before the ACA was even passed. The fact that you didn't pay any attention to what was going on in the healthcare industry likely has more to do with your political leanings combined with your need for medical care prior to the passage of the ACA.


The ACA was the cause of these changes.
I have no doubt.
Yes, health insurance was getting progressively more expensive.
But when the deductible and max out of pocket is ten fucking times worse, I think it is pretty safe to assume that some other factor mattered.
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
The general fallacy that uninformed voters make it the assumption that it is the ACA that is causing all of these cost problems. It isn't. The cost problems already existed. The ACA was an attempt to expand healthcare insurance. Any claims that it was going to reduce costs was obviously nonsense since the bill didn't have anything in it to reduce costs. You can't reduce costs by expanding coverage.

The problem with the ACA is that it did not go far enough. The ACA is perfectly fine really, what is needed is additional laws which would actually do something about the costs. That said, such laws are going to be extremely difficult to get past the healthcare lobby, especially when that lobby primary pays into the pockets of Republican congressmen.

The primary accomplishment that Trump and the Republicans will make by getting rid of the ACA is just to drive a whole lot of people into bankruptcy and onto Medicare. Getting rid of the ACA, by itself, isn't going to do a damn thing to reduce costs.


Look at it from a normal person point of view.
BEFORE OBAMACARE, I could get a physical covered on my health insurance.
My DEDUCTIBLE was TEN TIMES lower.
My max out of pocket was TEN TIMES LOWER.
I paid LESS per month, BY FAR.

I cant even get a fucking physical covered on my fucking health insurance.
I hope Trump repeals the shit out of this garbage.
But, its not like we can go back.

I can see it perfectly well from a normal persons view, that doesn't mean their opinion is right. What the fuck does opinion have to do with fact? You've actually made this same stupid argument in the past. You have done it multiple times when I make logical arguments about the ACA.

I get it, facts don't matter, what matters is how you feel about it. You sound like a fucking liberal.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
The general fallacy that uninformed voters make it the assumption that it is the ACA that is causing all of these cost problems. It isn't. The cost problems already existed. The ACA was an attempt to expand healthcare insurance. Any claims that it was going to reduce costs was obviously nonsense since the bill didn't have anything in it to reduce costs. You can't reduce costs by expanding coverage.

The problem with the ACA is that it did not go far enough. The ACA is perfectly fine really, what is needed is additional laws which would actually do something about the costs. That said, such laws are going to be extremely difficult to get past the healthcare lobby, especially when that lobby primary pays into the pockets of Republican congressmen.

The primary accomplishment that Trump and the Republicans will make by getting rid of the ACA is just to drive a whole lot of people into bankruptcy and onto Medicare. Getting rid of the ACA, by itself, isn't going to do a damn thing to reduce costs.


Look at it from a normal person point of view.
BEFORE OBAMACARE, I could get a physical covered on my health insurance.
My DEDUCTIBLE was TEN TIMES lower.
My max out of pocket was TEN TIMES LOWER.
I paid LESS per month, BY FAR.

I cant even get a fucking physical covered on my fucking health insurance.
I hope Trump repeals the shit out of this garbage.
But, its not like we can go back.

I can see it perfectly well from a normal persons view, that doesn't mean their opinion is right. What the fuck does opinion have to do with fact? You've actually made this same stupid argument in the past. You have done it multiple times when I make logical arguments about the ACA.

I get it, facts don't matter, what matters is how you feel about it. You sound like a fucking liberal.


At least im not stuck on, "The ACA cant possibly have affected anyone in a negative way."
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
The general fallacy that uninformed voters make it the assumption that it is the ACA that is causing all of these cost problems. It isn't. The cost problems already existed. The ACA was an attempt to expand healthcare insurance. Any claims that it was going to reduce costs was obviously nonsense since the bill didn't have anything in it to reduce costs. You can't reduce costs by expanding coverage.

The problem with the ACA is that it did not go far enough. The ACA is perfectly fine really, what is needed is additional laws which would actually do something about the costs. That said, such laws are going to be extremely difficult to get past the healthcare lobby, especially when that lobby primary pays into the pockets of Republican congressmen.

The primary accomplishment that Trump and the Republicans will make by getting rid of the ACA is just to drive a whole lot of people into bankruptcy and onto Medicare. Getting rid of the ACA, by itself, isn't going to do a damn thing to reduce costs.


Look at it from a normal person point of view.
BEFORE OBAMACARE, I could get a physical covered on my health insurance.
My DEDUCTIBLE was TEN TIMES lower.
My max out of pocket was TEN TIMES LOWER.
I paid LESS per month, BY FAR.

I cant even get a fucking physical covered on my fucking health insurance.
I hope Trump repeals the shit out of this garbage.
But, its not like we can go back.

I can see it perfectly well from a normal persons view, that doesn't mean their opinion is right. What the fuck does opinion have to do with fact? You've actually made this same stupid argument in the past. You have done it multiple times when I make logical arguments about the ACA.

I get it, facts don't matter, what matters is how you feel about it. You sound like a fucking liberal.


At least im not stuck on, "The ACA cant possibly have affected anyone in a negative way."

I've never said that, clearly it has. It is a tax increase on the middle class, it was a dumb system from the beginning. But historical cost information clearly shows that the rate of increase in healthcare spending as a percent of GDP has not materially altered since the passage of the ACA. If anything, the price increases have gone down, not up. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that just shows how much of a partisan hack you are.

Also I've pointed out many times in the past that every single bill ever passed by congress is going to harm someone. That is the nature of making laws. The goal isn't to make sure no one is harmed, the goal is to try to reduce harm as much as possible and help as many people as possible while trying to achive the maximum benefit to society as a whole.

[edit] Also, every bill not passed brings harm to people as well. Congress sitting on their hands and doing nothing hurts people as well. So again, the goal is to figure out the best path forward. That is very rarely going to be doing nothing and letting the magic free market fix everything.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
The general fallacy that uninformed voters make it the assumption that it is the ACA that is causing all of these cost problems. It isn't. The cost problems already existed. The ACA was an attempt to expand healthcare insurance. Any claims that it was going to reduce costs was obviously nonsense since the bill didn't have anything in it to reduce costs. You can't reduce costs by expanding coverage.

The problem with the ACA is that it did not go far enough. The ACA is perfectly fine really, what is needed is additional laws which would actually do something about the costs. That said, such laws are going to be extremely difficult to get past the healthcare lobby, especially when that lobby primary pays into the pockets of Republican congressmen.

The primary accomplishment that Trump and the Republicans will make by getting rid of the ACA is just to drive a whole lot of people into bankruptcy and onto Medicare. Getting rid of the ACA, by itself, isn't going to do a damn thing to reduce costs.


Look at it from a normal person point of view.
BEFORE OBAMACARE, I could get a physical covered on my health insurance.
My DEDUCTIBLE was TEN TIMES lower.
My max out of pocket was TEN TIMES LOWER.
I paid LESS per month, BY FAR.

I cant even get a fucking physical covered on my fucking health insurance.
I hope Trump repeals the shit out of this garbage.
But, its not like we can go back.

I can see it perfectly well from a normal persons view, that doesn't mean their opinion is right. What the fuck does opinion have to do with fact? You've actually made this same stupid argument in the past. You have done it multiple times when I make logical arguments about the ACA.

I get it, facts don't matter, what matters is how you feel about it. You sound like a fucking liberal.


At least im not stuck on, "The ACA cant possibly have affected anyone in a negative way."

I've never said that, clearly it has. It is a tax increase on the middle class, it was a dumb system from the beginning. But historical cost information clearly shows that the rate of increase in healthcare spending as a percent of GDP has not materially altered since the passage of the ACA. If anything, the price increases have gone down, not up. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that just shows how much of a partisan hack you are.


MY PRICES have gone up.
Why the fuck would someone like me care about healthcare spending related to GDP, if my health insurance gets worse and worse?
Why would I look beyond that to see, oh, well its this percent of GDP, well that makes it ALLLLLLLLL better.

The left, crammed this crap down on us.
THe left owns it.

Now I have to wonder, if the right tries to reform it, but YOU THINK its worse, you will call for obstructionism.
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Dash, one of the points of the ACA was that physicals (once a year) was supposed to cover the insured with no co-pay. If the company you're paying premiums to aren't doing that, it's a violation of the law -- unless this is your second or more physical.

As for the epidural -- that's insane it's not covered. And it's insane how much it's gone up. Sure, my youngest hits 25 next year, but it was $200 when she was born in 1992.

It's all fucked up -- from the hospitals and doctors to the insurance companies to the government intervention. No heroes among the bunch.
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TheDashi wrote:

MY PRICES have gone up.
Why the fuck would someone like me care about healthcare spending related to GDP, if my health insurance gets worse and worse?
Why would I look beyond that to see, oh, well its this percent of GDP, well that makes it ALLLLLLLLL better.

The left, crammed this crap down on us.
THe left owns it.

Now I have to wonder, if the right tries to reform it, but YOU THINK its worse, you will call for obstructionism.

Getting rid of the ziggurat...

Well the primary message I've got for you is this, when the Republicans fuck around with healthcare and make it worse for you as well as me, I hope you finally realize that they don't have a solution and you vote for single payer.

That is the only good thing that I hope to see out of this nonsense. The Republicans have full control of the wheel now. If you don't blame them when they don't manage to fix anything, it will just prove my point that you are a dumbass.

That has always been the actual truth. Republicans are just whiny bitches who care about how they feel about things rather than logic.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:

MY PRICES have gone up.
Why the fuck would someone like me care about healthcare spending related to GDP, if my health insurance gets worse and worse?
Why would I look beyond that to see, oh, well its this percent of GDP, well that makes it ALLLLLLLLL better.

The left, crammed this crap down on us.
THe left owns it.

Now I have to wonder, if the right tries to reform it, but YOU THINK its worse, you will call for obstructionism.

Getting rid of the ziggurat...

Well the primary message I've got for you is this, when the Republicans fuck around with healthcare and make it worse for you as well as me, I hope you finally realize that they don't have a solution and you vote for single payer.

That is the only good thing that I hope to see out of this nonsense. The Republicans have full control of the wheel now. If you don't blame them when they don't manage to fix anything, it will just prove my point that you are a dumbass.

That has always been the actual truth. Republicans are just whiny bitches who care about how they feel about things rather than logic.


Fuck you dumbass.
If they dont fix it, they will be the only ones TO blame. I am not some hypocritical selective outrage dumb ass liberal. The republicans are in control now, they better do something, or they are going to get destroyed in the next election.
They have gotten everything they said they needed in order to do anything, but if you cheer the democrats partaking in obstructionism, that just makes your side a bunch of flaming fuckhead hypocrites.

You leftists do not understand fucking anything about the other side.
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remorseless1 wrote:
Dash, one of the points of the ACA was that physicals (once a year) was supposed to cover the insured with no co-pay. If the company you're paying premiums to aren't doing that, it's a violation of the law -- unless this is your second or more physical.

As for the epidural -- that's insane it's not covered. And it's insane how much it's gone up. Sure, my youngest hits 25 next year, but it was $200 when she was born in 1992.

It's all fucked up -- from the hospitals and doctors to the insurance companies to the government intervention. No heroes among the bunch.


What am I supposed to do?
Call the insurance company and tell them, YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!
I think I can predict how that will turn out...
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:

MY PRICES have gone up.
Why the fuck would someone like me care about healthcare spending related to GDP, if my health insurance gets worse and worse?
Why would I look beyond that to see, oh, well its this percent of GDP, well that makes it ALLLLLLLLL better.

The left, crammed this crap down on us.
THe left owns it.

Now I have to wonder, if the right tries to reform it, but YOU THINK its worse, you will call for obstructionism.

Getting rid of the ziggurat...

Well the primary message I've got for you is this, when the Republicans fuck around with healthcare and make it worse for you as well as me, I hope you finally realize that they don't have a solution and you vote for single payer.

That is the only good thing that I hope to see out of this nonsense. The Republicans have full control of the wheel now. If you don't blame them when they don't manage to fix anything, it will just prove my point that you are a dumbass.

That has always been the actual truth. Republicans are just whiny bitches who care about how they feel about things rather than logic.


Fuck you dumbass.
If they dont fix it, they will be the only ones TO blame. I am not some hypocritical selective outrage dumb ass liberal. The republicans are in control now, they better do something, or they are going to get destroyed in the next election.
They have gotten everything they said they needed in order to do anything, but if you cheer the democrats partaking in obstructionism, that just makes your side a bunch of flaming fuckhead hypocrites.

You leftists do not understand fucking anything about the other side.

Oh did I hurt your feelings? Do you want me to apologize to you? I hope I didn't make you cry or anything...
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Of course the ACA affected people in a negative way too: Anyone that was a part of a very safe risk pool is either paying a ton more, or getting a lot less. In exchange, people that couldn't get insurance at all, can actually get some.

A BGG oldtimer has major lung problems, and needs drugs to speak for more than 10 minutes. This makes it very hard for her to hold a job, but the ACA covers her. The moment the pre-existing conditions language disappears, no company will insure her, because she consumes 20K of health care a year in a predictable fashion. A healthy woman in her 20s might get better coverage, and in exchange, my friend is probably dead.

So does the ACA need improvements? Absofuckinglutely. But healthcare costs were skyrocketing before the ACA too: The Bush years were craptacular for my insurance situation, in ways that are a lot like what you describe.

But, more seriously, how will Trump change this? It's right there in his tiny policy document: Repeal the ACA, allow selling insurance across state lines and promote health savings accounts. The first point kills people. The second will, at best give you access to cheaper insurance because it either covers a lot less, or lets the company stop paying benefits if something expensive happens to you. The third will only really help those that are young, healthy, and make a lot of money, while fucking over everyone else. It's a tire fire.

Mark my words: If the Trump plan is enacted in any way that resembles what was written, you will be begging for the ACA to come back. The best that could come of this is that a state like Washington or California will decide 'screw this, raise taxes and get single payer, because the federal government is a tire fire'. Those states are populous enough that they might get away with it. Smaller states (most of which voted Trump), or Florida, with a very old population, will just get fucked.
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R. Frazier
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
The general fallacy that uninformed voters make it the assumption that it is the ACA that is causing all of these cost problems. It isn't. The cost problems already existed. The ACA was an attempt to expand healthcare insurance. Any claims that it was going to reduce costs was obviously nonsense since the bill didn't have anything in it to reduce costs. You can't reduce costs by expanding coverage.

The problem with the ACA is that it did not go far enough. The ACA is perfectly fine really, what is needed is additional laws which would actually do something about the costs. That said, such laws are going to be extremely difficult to get past the healthcare lobby, especially when that lobby primary pays into the pockets of Republican congressmen.

The primary accomplishment that Trump and the Republicans will make by getting rid of the ACA is just to drive a whole lot of people into bankruptcy and onto Medicare. Getting rid of the ACA, by itself, isn't going to do a damn thing to reduce costs.


Look at it from a normal person point of view.
BEFORE OBAMACARE, I could get a physical covered on my health insurance.
My DEDUCTIBLE was TEN TIMES lower.
My max out of pocket was TEN TIMES LOWER.
I paid LESS per month, BY FAR.

I cant even get a fucking physical covered on my fucking health insurance.
I hope Trump repeals the shit out of this garbage.
But, its not like we can go back.

I can see it perfectly well from a normal persons view, that doesn't mean their opinion is right. What the fuck does opinion have to do with fact? You've actually made this same stupid argument in the past. You have done it multiple times when I make logical arguments about the ACA.

I get it, facts don't matter, what matters is how you feel about it. You sound like a fucking liberal.


At least im not stuck on, "The ACA cant possibly have affected anyone in a negative way."

I've never said that, clearly it has. It is a tax increase on the middle class, it was a dumb system from the beginning. But historical cost information clearly shows that the rate of increase in healthcare spending as a percent of GDP has not materially altered since the passage of the ACA. If anything, the price increases have gone down, not up. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that just shows how much of a partisan hack you are.

Also I've pointed out many times in the past that every single bill ever passed by congress is going to harm someone. That is the nature of making laws. The goal isn't to make sure no one is harmed, the goal is to try to reduce harm as much as possible and help as many people as possible while trying to achive the maximum benefit to society as a whole.

[edit] Also, every bill not passed brings harm to people as well. Congress sitting on their hands and doing nothing hurts people as well. So again, the goal is to figure out the best path forward. That is very rarely going to be doing nothing and letting the magic free market fix everything.


Yes but I don't think the ACA was sold to the middle class as "congratulations, you will be paying in the form of higher premiums and worse coverage, to insure the poor."

Honestly I wonder if this is what cost the Democrats this election - that fundamentally the average American knows that they got shafted by Obamacare and didn't feel like they were told in advance exactly how it was going to work, so this eroded core trust in the party to make their lives better.
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TheDashi wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Dash, one of the points of the ACA was that physicals (once a year) was supposed to cover the insured with no co-pay. If the company you're paying premiums to aren't doing that, it's a violation of the law -- unless this is your second or more physical.

As for the epidural -- that's insane it's not covered. And it's insane how much it's gone up. Sure, my youngest hits 25 next year, but it was $200 when she was born in 1992.

It's all fucked up -- from the hospitals and doctors to the insurance companies to the government intervention. No heroes among the bunch.


What am I supposed to do?
Call the insurance company and tell them, YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!
I think I can predict how that will turn out...
Call the state insurance commissioner's office and tell them your insurance co. is cheating you.
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TheDashi wrote:
Not to mention, they wont cover the TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR epidural from child birth.
They USED to.



Nail meet head. THAT'S why your Cadillac policy stopped covering things not Obamacare. The costs are ridiculous and getting worse. Premiums keep going up Obamacare or not. Now that you guys are in charge fix it.... we're waiting.
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