Greg Toystorian
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Because the game for an inexperienced player may appear complex and intimidating, we are adjusting the digital Rulebook to state that the massacre at the end of each Act is only to be used in ADVANCED GAMEPLAY.

RULE CHANGE FOR STANDARD GAMEPLAY:
We will soon be updating the digital Rulebook to state that the 3rd location attacked is the final location attacked in each Act, and players can survive to the next Act in any location that remains. In Standard gameplay no longer will an end of Act massacre occur, only the 3rd location is attacked.

OPTIONAL RULE CHANGE FOR ALL GAMEPLAY:
We are adding the option in the digital Rulebook if a Player is eliminated they can immediately take over the character token of a surviving supporting character (of the 6 original playable characters) if any remain in the game, and continue playing to the end of the game as that character.

We do not want Players to be discouraged from enjoying Crimson Creek based on its complexity. Because a few new Players have stated to us survival of the game appears to be based on random luck, which is not the case, we have decided these changes may be a better way to give everyone the opportunity to survive and learn the nuances of the game. Hopefully removing the massacre at the end of the Act will help people enjoy and play the game more, and over time players will learn and understand that survival in this game is not based on luck. Then once you master the Standard version we hope you will be even more entertained by the Advanced version.
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Michael Pittman
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I think these are excellent changes and allow for scaling up difficulty once the mechanics of the game are understood by all players (to some degree new players are still just trying to figure HOW TO PLAY rather than how to play WELL/PROPERLY).

Having backed the game, I've found it a bit hard to get my play group excited for it once I explained the puzzle-iness of it.

This might help that a lot.

Thanks.
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Davy Ashleydale
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What is the URL to the digital rulebook? I know it probably hasn't been updated with this new rule yet, but I'd like to bookmark it.
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Christophe Kuhner
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Hi !
Thanks for this suggestion.
We had our first game yesterday, playing with this rule. It was quite easy to survive each round, so my feeling is that this variant is only helpful for initiation.
With players used to play such kind of games I think you can start directly with the standard rules (advanced in the new roolbook).

Oh yeah, I forgot: we really enjoyed this game!
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Barry Miller
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I wonder how this new rule effects the hunt for Klein's Lair?

Was finally able to try this rule change while visiting my family this past holiday weekend! And it raised a question regarding how this revised rule affects one of the primary goals of the game...

Essentially, upon implementing this new rule, we discovered that most of the motivation to find Klein's Lair was gone.

- Without the threat of the final "massacre" attack at the end of the Act, there is no longer any significant benefit to finding his Lair. Yet there is a potential danger to attempting to do so, if a player guesses wrong. So it's a case of really nothing to gain, but possibly a lot to lose!

So what are the benefits to finding his Lair, with this new rule in effect? And are they worth it?
- The act ends early, avoiding potential danger for any later attacks in the Act
- The person who successfully finds the Lair gets a free peek at a Clue
(Did I miss any other benefit(s)?)

Are the above benefits worth it?
- While ending the act early is always a good thing, I'm not convinced that it provides enough of an impetus to actively pursue Klein's Lair, once the players have enough information to avoid an attack!

Why? In the few games I've played, most players have enough information after the second or third turn, to know enough to either stay put or be chased when an attack occurs. And considering that one of the two goals of the game is to simply survive, it seems to me that it's simply easier and less risky to avoid Klein's attacks rather than to seek him out! (Again, only when using the revised rule presented in the OP).

So given that most players - if not all- will typically have enough info to simply avoid Klein's attacks, then the whole concept of needing to find his Lair is sort of whacked-off at the knees.

- Sure, the player who finds his Lair does get a free peek at a Clue Card! And if such a player is 100% certain where the Lair is at, then by all means, go for the declaration! You'll get a free Clue peek as a side award!

But again, this is only true if the player is 100% SURE about where Klein's Lair is! If he's not 100% sure, then declaring the location of the Lair, with this new rule, is simply not worth it - even with the carrot of the free peek at a clue dangling in front of you! I know, because during our family game, I made a wrong declaration and was killed during the first round!

Bottom Line: I believe this new rule neuters any significant motivation to seek/discover, and declare the location of Klein's Lair. While there are benefits to doing so, in most cases it isn't worth the risk. After all, as long as you can simply avoid the attacks you will survive till morning, which is the goal of the game.

Plus, by not wasting any more effort than necessary to avoid the attacks, effort is freed-up to search for clues instead!

This line of thinking results in a situation, where after the 2nd attack of an act, the players might seriously wonder if it's worth it at all at this point to do any more seeking! Again, this assumes that the players have enough information to make a stay/chase decision, and have an available space to move to if it needs to be a "chase" decision. The point being that it takes a less number of turns to reach this state, then it would to go on and gain enough info to declare Klein's Lair with 100% certainty. So why bother? Especially if there's a potential of being killed if you guess wrong?


Thoughts? Am I missing something obvious? Is there a way to keep this revised rule intact (because I think it's good for new or casual players), yet still retain the motivation to find Klein's Lair?

Thx!


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Barry Miller
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As a follow-up to my above post, this new rule also changes the condition by which an Act ends. From 2nd paragraph on page 10:

"An act ends when Klein's Lair has been revealed."

The above excerpt seems pretty clear! But yet this new ruling of course means that an Act can end without ever knowing the location of Klein's Lair. (Unless I'm missing something really obvious)!

So how will the above wording change?

Thx again!

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Davy Ashleydale
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What if you played that the Act doesn't end until Klein's Lair is found, regardless of how many attacks he makes?
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Barry Miller
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randomlife wrote:
What if you played that the Act doesn't end until Klein's Lair is found, regardless of how many attacks he makes?

Hmmm... I like that! I wonder what other people think?

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Greg Toystorian
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The purpose of the new rules are specifically designed to help new players learn basic strategies to the game. As soon as you have learned the basic gameplay, you should level up to the Standard or Advanced version. Yes, the Beginner gameplay makes it very easy to survive. This level of difficulty is designed specifically to engage new players. This helps players form strategies of how to survive that are useful when playing at a higher level. Once you have a basic understanding of the game you should then be playing at the Standard or Advanced level of gameplay.

You can find the latest digital Rulebook with the Beginner, Standard and Advanced gameplay here...

https://app.box.com/s/6lga04cg7wwe515l2oszqxjm8cul2bv2

Yes, it does state “An Act ends when Klein’s Lair has been revealed.” This is followed immediately by “Klein’s Lair can be revealed in one of two ways: After the third Klein attack is completed, Klein’s Lair is revealed...” We will change the original line in the Rulebook to now read "An Act ends after the third attack by Klein or if Klein’s Lair has been revealed."
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Barry Miller
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Greg,

That was a great answer. Thanks! And I agree with everything you said.

I just looked at the new rulebook, and I'm glad I did! It appears that you kept the "massacre" concept intact, but only for the Advanced game (except its implemented a little differently by doing it at the same time as the 3rd Attack). And as you wrote above, the "Beginner" game has only a normal 3rd Attack, then the Act ends.

But it's the "Standard" game where you switched things up a bit! And I like it. Now I understand what you meant above, when you wrote that after gaining some experience, the beginning player should step up to the "Standard" game. For those who haven't seen the new rules yet:

- For the "Beginner" level of gameplay, the 3rd Attack works like any other Attack, then the Act ends. (I.e., only one "Reveal" card is resolved).
- For the "Standard" level of gameplay, two "Reveal" cards are resolved! Then the Act ends.
- And for the "Advanced" level of gameplay, ALL remaining "Reveal" cards are resolved! Then the Act ends. (Same thing as the Massacre attack from the original rules).

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King of the Wood
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Could you use beginner for act 1, standard for act 2 and advanced for act 3?
 
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Davy Ashleydale
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Troll66 wrote:
Could you use beginner for act 1, standard for act 2 and advanced for act 3?


I guess it depends on the crowd. It's a pretty quick game, so a full game in Beginner mode won't take very long. Or, if you sense that the other players totally "get it" after one act, I don't see any harm in playing the 2nd and 3rd Acts in Standard/Advanced mode.
 
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