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Subject: "The Electoral College Was Designed to Prevent Trump. You Can Make This Happen." rss

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Alexander Hamilton was explicit: this mechanism was designed to ensure that “the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”


What do you think?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/the-ele...?
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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Worked like a fucking charm.
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Jake
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It would be a gross breach of trust between the electors and their constituents. If people think the riots now are bad...

The people have spoken. The left doesn't want to play by the rules now after getting their way for the past eight years, but that's how a civilized government works.
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Sorry, you lost me at 'Huffington Post'.

In my humble opinion, the single most awful 'news' outlet there is - pushing their own bullshit agenda, inane clickbait and unsubstantiated stories to anyone who'll listen. Fine if it's for fun but they try to get their woefully paid contributors to peddle serous journalism, polls and content. Oh dear.

It's like the National Enquirer or Sunday Sport (in the UK) but dressed in slightly more appropriate clothes.

Mainly though, I can't believe they got away with that detailed Trump-hating editor footnote on every page during the election either... shocking stuff, regardless of your political stance. Even more so now he's the president elect.

/endofrant
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Mondainai wrote:
Quote:
Alexander Hamilton was explicit: this mechanism was designed to ensure that “the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”


What do you think?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/the-ele...?


Ok... seriously this line was HILARIOUS

Quote:
The Founding Fathers would have approved. More: they would have been distressed to see this not happen, given the circumstances


The Founding Fathers have been spinning in their graves for decades. They would see Trump as no less odious than Hillary or Obama or even Bush.

I didn't vote for Trump and I fear his Presidency... but the blindness of some people's bubble is scarier.

While I tend toward being more of a strict constitutionalist than not... even I am mostly happy with its being a living document that can be changed as the society changes... and I CERTAINLY would NOT want to go back to the Society the Found Fathers lived in. I am happy with our social progress on many fronts.

But it is exactly because I realize how much we have changed that I am so shocked that idiots like the person who penned that article actually exist.

shake

The Founding Fathers did NOT see a Trump coming because they never saw anything like most of what we are now coming at all. Trump is not what they had in mind. He just isn't. And this would be a very bad precedent to set. Far worse for our nation than Trump himself is likely to be.


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Mondainai wrote:
Quote:
Alexander Hamilton was explicit: this mechanism was designed to ensure that “the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”


What do you think?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/the-ele...?


Dude, the election is over. The republicans won.

Start getting everyone registered and get out the vote next time. Especially work to get democrats elected to your state legislatures to head off voter suppression polices that are likely to become very common by next election otherwise.

President Elect Trump will be president on January 20th. Republicans will control the house and senate. Some say they'll fall to internal in fighting but I think they'll be laser focused on their agenda for the first two years and everything they've wanted for the last 20 years will be locked in for the next 20 years.

The only positive note is they have plenty of rope. They are likely to go to great excesses before the end of President Trump's term. Don't count on the 2018 elections to help much.

Also, I can't see anyway Trump can both cut taxes and raise military and infrastructure spending without setting off a tea party revolt at some point. There are still some serious fiscal conservatives left in the conservative side of the house. Not many. But some.



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The people voted Hillary. An 18th century election system skews that result to Trump. Some people in here defend that by saying "we're not a democracy, we're a republic". So why then can't the same 18th century election system give the presidency to another Republican?

I personally prefer a system with a straight-forward connection between popular votes and result. But now that you don't have it, now that you've chosen to not make most Californians and Wyomingites don't matter at all, then I don't see the logic in stopping halfway and let the world's most powerful position go to a person who clearly don't respect democracy himself.
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Mondainai wrote:
The people voted Hillary. An 18th century election system skews that result to Trump. Some people in here defend that by saying "we're not a democracy, we're a republic". So why then can't the same 18th century election system give the presidency to another Republican?

I personally prefer a system with a straight-forward connection between popular votes and result. But now that you don't have it, now that you've chosen to not make most Californians and Wyomingites don't matter at all, then I don't see the logic in stopping halfway and let the world's most powerful position go to a person who clearly don't respect democracy himself.


Those are the rules of how we elect people. Changing them requires approval of the low population states so it won't happen.

The large states are not permitted to split into smaller states.

So short of moving large blocks of the population to smaller states from the larger states, this is just a fact of life.

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I get that. But the agency of the electors is also a fact of the same life.
 
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From the article:

Quote:
No question that many of these are appalled at the prospect of a Trump presidency


Given the method of selection I seriously doubt that "many" of Trump's pledged electors are "appalled". This is just another example of liberals who assume that their world view is the only correct one and therefore finding it incomprehensible that anyone could sincerely disagree with them. In order to maintain their delusion they must believe that people only voted for Trump to express their anger, but now regret their decision.

As a practical matter, especially given that Trump has a comfortable margin in the electoral college it's not going to happen. If he only had the exact required number it would require only 1 "faithless elector" to mess things up. That's not the case here. Regardless, if a couple dozen were to renege on their commitment to vote for Trump, it would trigger the alternate process. Given that the Republicans also control both houses of congress, they certainly would not choose Clinton! So it would, as a practical matter, end up being Trump anyway.
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Jake
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Completely disregarding the election and doing whatever they want isn't the purpose of the electoral college. The electoral college actually worked exactly how it was supposed to.

Doing what you're suggesting is a recipe for a widespread breakdown of the rule of law.
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Mondainai wrote:
I get that. But the agency of the electors is also a fact of the same life.


That doesn't change the fact that if california were split into states with populations equal to wyoming, the population would have over 100 senators and over 50 representatives and so over 150 electoral votes.

Currently California gets 55 electoral votes.

Oh I read the others and understand what you are driving at.

No, letting the electors vote is an even more extreme case. Letting 500 citizens decide the president on some kind of pissed off whim.

Mr. Trump won according to the rules.


The 5 stages of grief and loss are: 1. Denial and isolation; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance. People who are grieving do not necessarily go through the stages in the same order or experience all of them.

I skipped 1 and Fuck stage 3. That's not happening. I'm in a bit of 2, 4, and 5.

The sooner you can get to 5, the better you can take realistic and effective actions.
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So how undemocratic would the president elect need to be for you to want the electors to intervene?

Duda? Orban? Erdogan? Putin? Never ever?
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Leo Zappa
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Mondainai wrote:
So how undemocratic would the president elect need to be for you to want the electors to intervene?

Duda? Orban? Erdogan? Putin? Never ever?


Never. Our nation is founded on the rule of law and the concept of representative democracy. If the result of the election produces an electoral college that gives us a dubious president so be it. The only way to change the system is via constitutional amendment. That's a very high bar to reach, as it should be, as the Constitution should not be changed on a whim.

I voted for Clinton. Now I will accept president Trump and hope he works with Congress and does a good job. In four years we will have the opportunity to choose again. No problem and no changes to the election process are necessary.
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Donald
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Trump thought Romney won the popular vote back in '012, what did he have to say?

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Captain Coconut wrote:
It would be a gross breach of trust between the electors and their constituents.


Agreed. Electors should vote for the candidate they were assigned to, and should have no choice.
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Having the electors ignore the result of the election and vote in someone else would be an invitation for civil war. If the people don't have the ballot box, what is left?
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fizzmore wrote:
Having the electors ignore the result of the election and vote in someone else would be an invitation for civil war. If the people don't have the ballot box, what is left?

Calexit?
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After what we've seen the last fifteen months, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the EC just said, "fuck it" and took the election away from Trump.

But, what then?

See, here's the thing, they wouldn't have to necessarily give it to Clinton. Nope. From what I've read they could decide to give it to, say, Pence. Or Paul Ryan. I don't know if that's true, but it sure does say some scary stuff for our democracy / republic.

I mean, I don't want Trump to be President. At. All. So on the micro scale, if the EC did something crazy, I might chuckle, but on the macro level, this would be some scary shit.
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ohbalto wrote:
After what we've seen the last fifteen months, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the EC just said, "fuck it" and took the election away from Trump.

But, what then?

See, here's the thing, they wouldn't have to necessarily give it to Clinton. Nope. From what I've read they could decide to give it to, say, Pence. Or Paul Ryan. I don't know if that's true, but it sure does say some scary stuff for our democracy / republic.

I mean, I don't want Trump to be President. At. All. So on the micro scale, if the EC did something crazy, I might chuckle, but on the macro level, this would be some scary shit.


I think if the EC pandered to the entitled rioting masses and denied Trump the presidency it would be the end of America as we know it. There would be no trust left in our political systems and we would become even more fractured then we are today. It would be legitimately catastrophic for the future of this country, even worse then a Trump presidency may be (which is debatable).

You would have over 40 million people who feel that they were disenfranchised and had their vote taken away from them. Let's be honest, the democrats would not care one bit about the electoral college right now if they had not lost.
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Mondainai wrote:
Quote:
Alexander Hamilton was explicit: this mechanism was designed to ensure that “the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”


What do you think?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/the-ele...?


I wondered how long it would take for somebody to try this approach. I honestly thought it would take at least another week of butt-hurt before they thought of th is.

What I find amusing is that the assumption is it's Republican Electors who would have be be persuaded to "vote their conscience" and hence break their obligation to their constituencies. Why aren't the Democrats obligated to vote THEIR conscience and give Trump all 570 votes? She would do vastly more damage to our nation and institutions than he ever would; anybody who truly "votes their conscience" would know that.

But fundamentally no, it boils down to fulfilling your obligation like adult, not a spoiled Occupy protester. They had their chance in the election; they nominated an unelectable and unlikable woman under FBI investigation. Go back and figure out why you lost.

This is just another pathetic attempt by Democrats to SAY they want to work together from one side of their mouths while doing everything they can to de-legitimize President Trump from the other.



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Donald wrote:
Trump thought Romney won the popular vote back in '012, what did he have to say?



Yes....he was a Democrat then and didn't know any better.



Ferret
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Ferretman wrote:


Yes....he was a Democrat then and didn't know any better.



Ferret


He was democrat protesting a democrat being elected as president. Do you even think before you post or is all gut shot denial now?

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If you break the faithless elector law, you have to pay a small fine.
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bjlillo wrote:

Most states have laws which compel their electors to follow the will of the people. I'm not sure this guy's fantasy could even become reality.



This article being discussed in this thread shows the opposite map.

If the "close call" states, PA, AZ,GE, maybe TX based on the one guy's comment in the article, swap votes, it is possible. Who's to say some of the blue states don't do the same thing and go red?

It a nice coping mechanism to think it could happen, but it won't.

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