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Garth Brooks
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During combat, I ask my opponent how many Tactics cards they have in their hand while figuring out how to assign damage.

They tell me "Find me a rule that tells me I have to show you that information."

So, is the number of cards in each player's hand (Probe, Mission, Action, Tactics, Objective) public information at all stages of the game?
 
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Ruud
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Ming_Tso wrote:
During combat, I ask my opponent how many Tactics cards they have in their hand while figuring out how to assign damage.

They tell me "Find me a rule that tells me I have to show you that information."

So, is the number of cards in each player's hand (Probe, Mission, Action, Tactics, Objective) public information at all stages of the game?


I have no idea, but I'd table flip before thinking of a more appropriate response.
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Owen Sieber
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Ming_Tso wrote:
During combat, I ask my opponent how many Tactics cards they have in their hand while figuring out how to assign damage.

They tell me "Find me a rule that tells me I have to show you that information."

So, is the number of cards in each player's hand (Probe, Mission, Action, Tactics, Objective) public information at all stages of the game?


I do not think there are any real rules to prevent hiding card count, but we always play that card count is open.

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Bob Boberson

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There is likely no rule, but you should have a pretty good idea about how many they have based on their initial draw, used tactics dice, and played cards.
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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I'd side with your opponent on this one. In the absence of a direct ruling on whether card count is open of not, it seems the only way to force your opponent to reveal that information is a physical confrontation- and we're not animals.

In all seriousness, though, I do believe that cards are hidden information- by that, I mean that, for instance, the types of probe cards that your opponent has drawn are not open information. As to whether the number drawn is available to you- not sure that's spelled out.

As bobacles has said, it shouldn't be too hard to keep track via initial leader draw + post draws, especially if you consider that an important part of your combat strategy.
 
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Steve Dara
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bobacles wrote:
There is likely no rule, but you should have a pretty good idea about how many they have based on their initial draw, used tactics dice, and played cards.


As with most all tabletop games, any draw action is done in the open. In addition to that in Rebellion you are allowed to take notes. So I would suggest, in the future, note down any action your opponent does (any at all) and not to allow them to progress further than your handwriting can go. At least until your opponent realizes that there is no legitimate reason you should not be allowed to know such information, and tells you his hand size.

Subtrendy Gaming wrote:
I'd side with your opponent on this one. In the absence of a direct ruling on whether card count is open of not, it seems the only way to force your opponent to reveal that information is a physical confrontation- and we're not animals.

In all seriousness, though, I do believe that cards are hidden information- by that, I mean that, for instance, the types of probe cards that your opponent has drawn are not open information. As to whether the number drawn is available to you- not sure that's spelled out.

As bobacles has said, it shouldn't be too hard to keep track via initial leader draw + post draws, especially if you consider that an important part of your combat strategy.


Is the size of the discard and draw pile also secret? Because I don't have to look at my opponents hand, I can look at all card that aren't in his hand
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Antonia
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I would also say it is open information.

The fact that you can conclude the handsize with note keeping and you are allowed do that supports that. And without going through the hassle of note keeping it should be fair and square to know the number of cards.
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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TheV0791 wrote:

Is the size of the discard and draw pile also secret? Because I don't have to look at my opponents hand, I can look at all card that aren't in his hand


Again, read where I've openly stated that I don't know the ruling on this- just making assumptions.

Personally, though, I'd say it would be kind of psychopathic to ban you from looking at the discard pile. I don't think you need to necessarily be allowed to sift through and count the discard pile, though.
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Philip Jelley
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It is open information as they is no reason why you could not make a note of every card he draws (even if you only know the type of card he has draw), but this is not the way to make friends. Of course, you could just sit down and comb through the rules page by page, effectively ending the game.
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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One less opponent to play against in the future, I would say.

Drawing tactic cards and how many is open information. How many they already played during the combat is open information. So, the only reason your opponent should keep the number of their cards secret is to test your short term memory. Rebellion is not a memory game.

An equally unkind and appropriate reaction could be: prove me you did not cheat and drew more cards at the beginning of the combat! Oh, you won't? Cheater, I win!
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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Jan Probst
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Only cretinous philistines hide trackable information.
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Scott Lewis
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I'm pretty sure if asked, the official ruling would be "the number of cards in the deck, your hand, and discard pile is open information".
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Jorgen Peddersen
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I'm pretty sure if asked, the official ruling would be "the number of cards in the deck, your hand, and discard pile is open information".

All of this is supported in the rules except checking the number of cards in the deck, but I think it's fair enough to allow a count of that.

So yeah, just tell them that you could easily count the cards in play, in the discard pile and in the deck and instantly know how many cards they have in their hand by a matter of deduction and they should realise that hiding the information on their card count is useless.

I also feel that perhaps instead of showing your opponent a rule, you might want to show them Wheaton's Law.
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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Clipper wrote:

I also feel that perhaps instead of showing your opponent a rule, you might want to show them Wheaton's Law.


That's fair, typically what my group abides by.

I'd say we really don't know enough about this type of situation. Was the opponent new to the game, and truly thought that this information could unfairly ruin his game? Had the game, up until that point been a fun, friendly, and noncompetitive?

I mean, basically this thread has started judging two different things now- the rules, and the players' behavior. With the rules, it seems most of us have come to the consensus that this is how the game should be played. But as for the behavior, I think it's hardly fair to condemn either player here. They should know the rules now- let's just hope they play fairly in the future.
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David Umstattd
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NEVER play with somebody like this. People who demand you take notes for information which is readily provided to you are the kind of people that it is almost impossible to resist punching in the face.
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Michael Coniff
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This is going to be left up to *house rules, as such, you *may come to have two options:

Thematically: Cards stay hidden. You don't know what your opponent is bringing to the table in a conflict, and neither does he know what you are bringing to the table.

Classically: It's pretty universal that in most games the amount of cards in one's hand is common knowledge. Magic the gathering operates this way and considering that game is the undisputed king of cards, I'd say it's a pretty good rule to follow.

*If you happen to disagree with my point, see asterisks above.
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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WisdomForWizards wrote:
Thematically: Cards stay hidden. You don't know what your opponent is bringing to the table in a conflict, and neither does he know what you are bringing to the table.
You could also say you know your enemy, you know what they are capable of, how good strategist/tactician they are (it's printed on their leader token)...

WisdomForWizards wrote:
Classically:
...and so you know exactly how many cards they drew 2 minutes ago. Even if you forgot, again, it's printed on the leaders. Why would you need to remember how many of those cards they already played in the last two minutes? There is no need to house-rule this in any way.

And even if someone house-rules it:
You only need to check the discard pile. That is again open information. All tactic cards are shuffled back to their decks at the end of the combat. So, that discard pile contains only the cards played during the current combat. You probably remember yours, even theirs. Quite easy to figure out how many they have left in their hand. The house-rule is would be totally useless.
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Mattias Elfström
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Of course number of cards is open information. Anything else is nonsense.

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Aron
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Number of cards and type (objective tier, project versus mission etc) is known information and therefore not a secret.
If anybody you play with disagree then I advice not to play or just note everything. It light help you even
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Arontje wrote:
Number of cards and type (objective tier, project versus mission etc) is known information and therefore not a secret.
If anybody you play with disagree then I advice not to play or just note everything. It light help you even

Objective tier isn't known information. There are ways for the Rebels to manipulate the deck without the Imperials knowing what happened. For example, draw two Objective cards, bury one at the bottom of the deck. If it was at a boundary, you don't know if they kept the higher or lower tiered card. Thus, you should not be allowed to ask about the tier count in hand.
Edit: The above was just total derp. See posts below. The rest of the post still stands, though.

I'd argue that Rebels shouldn't really be able to ask how many Project vs non-Project Mission cards are in-hand as well. This is mostly because much of the time, some Missions will be face-down with leaders assigned, so you can't ask about them at those times (doing so might force the Imperial player to give away if they assigned to the Projects or not).

I agree that you should be able to show the spread-out card backs that are in-hand at any time if asked, but you don't have to answer questions about the type of card unless that's obvious from the backs.
 
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Derry Salewski
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Clipper wrote:

Objective tier isn't known information.

...

I agree that you should be able to show the spread-out card backs that are in-hand at any time if asked, but you don't have to answer questions about the type of card unless that's obvious from the backs.


Erm . . .
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Jorgen Peddersen
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scifiantihero wrote:
Erm . . .

Oh... It's been a while since I looked at the card backs.... they show the tier don't they? whistle

Edit: Yep... Oops. modest
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Objective cards do say on its back what tier it is. And if rebels putnone on top and other on bottom they state which card.

As for project, missions assigned and in hand together of course. So they know how many project cards you have, not how many assigned or left in hand after assignment.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Yeah, my memory was seriously faulty on the Objectives.

However, I stand firm that you shouldn't need to remind people of your remaining Project count, at least during the Command Phase. It's annoying to look at all the cards to ensure your count is correct.

Then again, given the Project discards are separate from Mission discards and are also public info, it's easy enough to know how many are in your hand by counting those in the deck and discards, so I guess there's not much difference to the Tactics card situation.

 
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