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Dune» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bene Gesserit Worthless card Karama question... rss

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Kevin White
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Hi there,

About to have my first real game at the weekend and have a question about the rules.

The Scott and Ilya Dune rules re-write say that the Bene Gesserit only have the ability to use Worthless cards as Karama powers in the Advanced game.... (we are only playing the basic game as it's our first playthrough).

However, later, the rule books contradict themselves in the Almanac on the 'Karama Effects' page. They say that in the basic game that a regular Karama card can be used to stop a Bene Gesserit player using a Worthless as a Karama card.

Currently I'm still going with 'worthless as Karama' as advanced game, but which is it?

Cheers all
Kev
 
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Steve
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It's advanced. Each player has a specific "Super-Karama" power as part of the advanced rules. For BG that is the ability to use worthless cards as Karamas.
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Aaron Bredon
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Special Karama powers are in the Optional Rules, not in the Advanced rules (the only rules in the Advanced rules are Double Spice Blow and Combat Spice support)

Please also read the original rules book as at least some of the rewritten/consolidated rules books have moved or altered rules in attempts to 'clarify' things.

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Tonichi Sanvictores
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Does it still hold that Starbase Jeff's ruleset is the clearest interpretation?
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Raithyn
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I would put Slev's rewrite over Starbase Jeff. Both are pretty clear though.
 
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Klaude Thomas
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Snoppster wrote:
Hi there,

About to have my first real game at the weekend and have a question about the rules.

The Scott and Ilya Dune rules re-write say that the Bene Gesserit only have the ability to use Worthless cards as Karama powers in the Advanced game.... (we are only playing the basic game as it's our first playthrough).

However, later, the rule books contradict themselves in the Almanac on the 'Karama Effects' page. They say that in the basic game that a regular Karama card can be used to stop a Bene Gesserit player using a Worthless as a Karama card.

Currently I'm still going with 'worthless as Karama' as advanced game, but which is it?

In the original Dune rules, the BG Worthless Card use is part of the Optional Rules albeit preventing that use is part of the Basic Rules. So Slev's rules reflect an idiosyncracy of canon in that latter respect. Both aspects are found on the "Front" of the Player Aid Sheet.

Specifically, the Advanced Game adds Advanced Combat and doubled Spice Blow, and makes Increased Spice Flow from the Optional Rules mandatory (all in order to pay for Advanced Combat, of course). The Optional Rules unlock Special Karama Powers from the Player Aid Sheet "Front" (B.) and the Additional Character Advantages from Player Aid Sheet "Back", change the way that Weather (the Storm move) is determined, offer a Longer Game (and incidentally a shorter game in the same breath), and Increased Spice Flow (the spice attached to some strongholds).

IIRC Slev's version does depart from dogma on some points, and for that reason I obviously count it heretical, notwithstanding the admirable labours involved
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O.Shane Balloun
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Bellingham
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I will play as the Atreides, Bene Gesserit, Emperor, Fremen, Guild, or Harkonnen.
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CryWolf wrote:
Does it still hold that Starbase Jeff's ruleset is the clearest interpretation?


Yes. I'm with vonklaude on this one.
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Tonichi Sanvictores
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Thanks for the input.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
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vonklaude wrote:

In the original Dune rules, the BG Worthless Card use is part of the Optional Rules albeit preventing that use is part of the Basic Rules. So Slev's rules reflect an idiosyncracy of canon in that latter respect. Both aspects are found on the "Front" of the Player Aid Sheet.

ANd as the aim was to not change any of the underlying mechanics, this is likely why it is as it is!


vonklaude wrote:

IIRC Slev's version does depart from dogma on some points, and for that reason I obviously count it heretical, notwithstanding the admirable labours involved


This is the most appropriate use of "dogma" I've ever seen

The aim was, of course, to make everything crystal clear and still play the same. Alas some of the more murky rules require some interpretation, with players differing on the correct interpretation.

Thus, if you read the original a certain way, my rules are wrong, if you read it the other way, my rules are right. That's why I made the .doc files available, so you can re-edit as needed to make the rules match your own interpretation as you need.

On the other hand, I took to labelling the player powers, purely as flavour and for ease of reference. This took right of as a concept, so I'm glad I did!
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