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Subject: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won rss

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Steven Woodcock
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A good if a bit snarky summation of how Democrats convinced themselves they were in the right:

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-i...
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Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?
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Steven Woodcock
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anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?


Oh quite, but I also like others to speak on occasion, whether they disagree with me or not.

Liberals should try it sometime.



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Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?


Oh quite, but I also like others to speak on occasion, whether they disagree with me or not.

Liberals should try it sometime.



Ferret

Using your brain doesn't hurt!
 
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anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?


There are plenty of posts giving links to articles etc. expressing a pov. You choose this one to crap on? shake
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Steven Woodcock
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anemaat wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?


Oh quite, but I also like others to speak on occasion, whether they disagree with me or not.

Liberals should try it sometime.



Ferret

Using your brain doesn't hurt!


Totally concur.....try it, you'll like it.


Ferret
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Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?


Oh quite, but I also like others to speak on occasion, whether they disagree with me or not.

Liberals should try it sometime.



Ferret

Using your brain doesn't hurt!


Totally conour.....try it, you'll like it.


Ferret


You spelled concur wrong.
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Steven Woodcock
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mrspank wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?


Oh quite, but I also like others to speak on occasion, whether they disagree with me or not.

Liberals should try it sometime.



Ferret

Using your brain doesn't hurt!


Totally conour.....try it, you'll like it.


Ferret


You spelled concur wrong.


DOH!

Though that does look really close at least...


Ferret
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Ferretman wrote:
A good if a bit snarky summation of how Democrats convinced themselves they were in the right:

https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-i...

You want a primary source battle, you got one!!!devil
 
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Ferretman wrote:
mrspank wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?


Oh quite, but I also like others to speak on occasion, whether they disagree with me or not.

Liberals should try it sometime.



Ferret

Using your brain doesn't hurt!


Totally conour.....try it, you'll like it.


Ferret


You spelled concur wrong.


DOH!

Though that does look really close at least...


Ferret


It was a cheap shot on my part.
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This article is interesting but probably not correct. Trump won because Republicans showed up for him and not enough democrats showed up to vote for Clinton.

I really don't think democrats didn't show up because of the "big news" in Wikileaks, that's probably a minor contributing factor.

I think the big thing that causes people to not show up for hillary is that #1 she doesn't inspire #2 there is a general odor of corruption about her and #3 there is a certain amount of "clinton fatigue" and even "party fatigue" in the base in which we are generally tired of hearing how we absolutely have to vote for the party pick or a disaster will occur while at the same time we don't see what we want from the party on major economic issues.
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rylfrazier wrote:
This article is interesting but probably not correct. Trump won because Republicans showed up for him and not enough democrats showed up to vote for Clinton.

I really don't think democrats didn't show up because of the "big news" in Wikileaks, that's probably a minor contributing factor.

I think the big thing that causes people to not show up for hillary is that #1 she doesn't inspire #2 there is a general odor of corruption about her and #3 there is a certain amount of "clinton fatigue" and even "party fatigue" in the base in which we are generally tired of hearing how we absolutely have to vote for the party pick or a disaster will occur while at the same time we don't see what we want from the party on major economic issues.


Shh... you're going to harsh their SJW/PC backlash and general butt hurt buzz.
 
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rylfrazier wrote:
This article is interesting but probably not correct. Trump won because Republicans showed up for him and not enough democrats showed up to vote for Clinton.

I really don't think democrats didn't show up because of the "big news" in Wikileaks, that's probably a minor contributing factor.

I think the big thing that causes people to not show up for hillary is that #1 she doesn't inspire #2 there is a general odor of corruption about her and #3 there is a certain amount of "clinton fatigue" and even "party fatigue" in the base in which we are generally tired of hearing how we absolutely have to vote for the party pick or a disaster will occur while at the same time we don't see what we want from the party on major economic issues.


You may be correct to the extent that the reasons given don't explain why Democrats didn't come out to vote for Clinton. However, I think they are closer to the mark in explaining why Republicans did come out to vote for Trump.

To your list of reasons why Democrats didn't support Clinton strongly enough, I might add having conspired with the DNC to defeat Sanders and getting caught (that was one leak that I do believe had an impact). I've not seen any solid polls, but my sense is that a great many Sanders supporters did not turn to Clinton, even though Sanders ended up endorsing her. And some of them even ended up supporting Trump. Taking the easy route in the primaries cost her in the general election, IMHO.
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mrspank wrote:


It was a cheap shot on my part.


Though you were indeed technically correct, which is the best kind.

Tip of the hat sir.


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rcbevco wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
This article is interesting but probably not correct. Trump won because Republicans showed up for him and not enough democrats showed up to vote for Clinton.

I really don't think democrats didn't show up because of the "big news" in Wikileaks, that's probably a minor contributing factor.

I think the big thing that causes people to not show up for hillary is that #1 she doesn't inspire #2 there is a general odor of corruption about her and #3 there is a certain amount of "clinton fatigue" and even "party fatigue" in the base in which we are generally tired of hearing how we absolutely have to vote for the party pick or a disaster will occur while at the same time we don't see what we want from the party on major economic issues.


Shh... you're going to harsh their SJW/PC backlash and general butt hurt buzz.


One can't hurt what doesn't exist....the libs and SJWs got pasted.

One part is correct....the general odor around Hillary was a major turn-off. Most of those I know who were teetering ultimately cited that to me as the reason they voted for Trump. (One of them genuinely didn't like either candidate, but decided on Trump on the "can't be any worse" theory.)

I don't know as I've seen a good breakdown on voter composition, so I can't address the initial part of his post.



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rylfrazier wrote:
This article is interesting but probably not correct. Trump won because Republicans showed up for him and not enough democrats showed up to vote for Clinton.

I really don't think democrats didn't show up because of the "big news" in Wikileaks, that's probably a minor contributing factor.

I think the big thing that causes people to not show up for hillary is that #1 she doesn't inspire #2 there is a general odor of corruption about her and #3 there is a certain amount of "clinton fatigue" and even "party fatigue" in the base in which we are generally tired of hearing how we absolutely have to vote for the party pick or a disaster will occur while at the same time we don't see what we want from the party on major economic issues.


Add: you nominated a criminal and spent the entire campaign trying to make her a saint, instead of focusing on issues.

I keep seeing the age chart tossed about. Young people voted for her, the future is looking good for Dems, old people voted Trump they will die-mantra.

I think it is far more correct to simply say that people who were old enough to be politically aware in the 90s knew for a fact she was a shady liar/criminal and email-gate simply confirmed that she hadn't changed and was unfit.

You Dems believe your own propaganda that she was a saint.
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Koldfoot wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
This article is interesting but probably not correct. Trump won because Republicans showed up for him and not enough democrats showed up to vote for Clinton.

I really don't think democrats didn't show up because of the "big news" in Wikileaks, that's probably a minor contributing factor.

I think the big thing that causes people to not show up for hillary is that #1 she doesn't inspire #2 there is a general odor of corruption about her and #3 there is a certain amount of "clinton fatigue" and even "party fatigue" in the base in which we are generally tired of hearing how we absolutely have to vote for the party pick or a disaster will occur while at the same time we don't see what we want from the party on major economic issues.


Add: you nominated a criminal and spent the entire campaign trying to make her a saint, instead of focusing on issues.

I keep seeing the age chart tossed about. Young people voted for her, the future is looking good for Dems, old people voted Trump they will die-mantra.

I think it is far more correct to simply say that people who were old enough to be politically aware in the 90s knew for a fact she was a shady liar/criminal and email-gate simply confirmed that she hadn't changed and was unfit.

You Dems believe your own propaganda that she was a saint.


Nope, I just thought she was better than Trump. Still do.

The thing about the guy you elected is that there are a lot of really bad people who are still better than him.

The guy literally said he thinks that women who have abortions should be punished. I can't vote for someone like that. I believe in the right to choose. I can't vote for a guy who is willing to say that a judge shouldn't be allowed to hear his case because of his race.

I never liked Hillary or thought she was a saint, and I don't think most democrats did - we just thought she was better than the truly horrible alternative your party coughed up on the rug.
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rylfrazier wrote:
...The guy literally said he thinks that women who have abortions should be punished. I can't vote for someone like that. I believe in the right to choose....


This is where the story on Trump starts to get fictionalized. He was asked a hypothetical in a interview - IF abortion was made illegal, would a woman getting an abortion be subject to punishment under such a law. Trump simply said he thought she would, but the more serious punishment would be for the person performing it. In fact it appeared to me he was skating around the issue because he didn't want to alienate any of the anti-abortionist in his own party, but had no intention of raising the issue in his campaign or doing anything about abortion upon becoming President.

rylfrazier wrote:
...I can't vote for a guy who is willing to say that a judge shouldn't be allowed to hear his case because of his race.


Mexican isn't a "race". He was simply making the point that the judge (who is an American, but whose parents are Mexican) was biased against him because of Trump's stance on illegal immigration / immigrants. No problem criticizing him saying it, but don't twist it into some sort of racist view. There's no indication that he would have had any problem with a Cuban-American judge hearing his case.
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deadkenny wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
...The guy literally said he thinks that women who have abortions should be punished. I can't vote for someone like that. I believe in the right to choose....


This is where the story on Trump starts to get fictionalized. He was asked a hypothetical in a interview - IF abortion was made illegal, would a woman getting an abortion be subject to punishment under such a law. Trump simply said he thought she would, but the more serious punishment would be for the person performing it. In fact it appeared to me he was skating around the issue because he didn't want to alienate any of the anti-abortionist in his own party, but had no intention of raising the issue in his campaign or doing anything about abortion upon becoming President.


That's just not correct. He said abortion should be outlawed and if it were outlawed those who break the law should be punished.

Yes, he did hem and haw about it and maybe he did want to avoid taking the position, but he said it. That's who he's in bed with.

He did later take the position that only abortion doctors should be punished, which is a slight improvement but realistically he's still for a ban on abortion which I am extremely strongly against.

deadkenny wrote:
Mexican isn't a "race". He was simply making the point that the judge (who is an American, but whose parents are Mexican) was biased against him because of Trump's stance on illegal immigration / immigrants. No problem criticizing him saying it, but don't twist it into some sort of racist view. There's no indication that he would have had any problem with a Cuban-American judge hearing his case.


Of course claiming that all Mexicans or those of Mexican ancestry are against you is a racist view. Are you kidding me?

Race doesn't really exist at all, but racists think it does and certainly the claim that because of the national heritage of an American, that American cannot treat you fairly is a racist view.

Next you'll say that the internment of Japanese people in WWII wasn't "racist" because it wasn't against all Asians, just Japanese people. Give me a break.
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1. Trump on abortion - he hemmed and hawed, clearly wanting to be "pro-life" for political purposes but otherwise not having any intention to do anything about it. FWIW here is the interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGSttcyn2RI

2. Yes, I make a distinction between racism, i.e. unjustified negative action taken on the basis of race vs. nationality. In any case, Trump didn't say that "Mexicans" couldn't judge him, he said that particular judge was biased against him and suggested the reason why the judge was biased was the national origin of his parents and Trump's own stance regarding illegal immigration. Again, I'm not suggesting it was a legit point. Simply commenting on how what Trump actually said gets changed into something rather different.
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anemaat wrote:
Aren't you smart enough to use your own words?
In his defense, what happens when a conservative uses his (her) own words?

You ask for backup for proof.

We provide proof.

You say our sources are no good.

I think the OP was just trying to skip one of these steps.
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rylfrazier wrote:
This article is interesting but probably not correct. Trump won because Republicans showed up for him and not enough democrats showed up to vote for Clinton.

I really don't think democrats didn't show up because of the "big news" in Wikileaks, that's probably a minor contributing factor.

I think the big thing that causes people to not show up for hillary is that #1 she doesn't inspire #2 there is a general odor of corruption about her and #3 there is a certain amount of "clinton fatigue" and even "party fatigue" in the base in which we are generally tired of hearing how we absolutely have to vote for the party pick or a disaster will occur while at the same time we don't see what we want from the party on major economic issues.


Yeah, I agree. Clinton lost because liberals were lukewarm on her. She was "good enough". We settled for her. I told my husband way back in the primary season that this election was probably going to go the GOP (and I reiterated it after Trump got the nomination). I was utterly disgusted with the choices before us, and even more disgusted when it was Hillary. It felt like the Democratic Party leadership was pushing her down our throats like she was Queen of America. Such arrogance. In the end, I held my nose and voted for her, but SOLELY in reaction to Trump. And I've voted Democrat in every presidential election since 1992. I'm their base.

To get out the vote, you need an energized base. We didn't have that. As much as I also wasn't Bernie's biggest fan, he at least would have had enthusiastic canvassing.

Liberals stayed home. And we lost.

It's not enough to simply be NOT THAT GUY. You have to inspire the electorate.
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rylfrazier wrote:
deadkenny wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
...The guy literally said he thinks that women who have abortions should be punished. I can't vote for someone like that. I believe in the right to choose....


This is where the story on Trump starts to get fictionalized. He was asked a hypothetical in a interview - IF abortion was made illegal, would a woman getting an abortion be subject to punishment under such a law. Trump simply said he thought she would, but the more serious punishment would be for the person performing it. In fact it appeared to me he was skating around the issue because he didn't want to alienate any of the anti-abortionist in his own party, but had no intention of raising the issue in his campaign or doing anything about abortion upon becoming President.


That's just not correct. He said abortion should be outlawed and if it were outlawed those who break the law should be punished.

Yes, he did hem and haw about it and maybe he did want to avoid taking the position, but he said it. That's who he's in bed with.

He did later take the position that only abortion doctors should be punished, which is a slight improvement but realistically he's still for a ban on abortion which I am extremely strongly against.

deadkenny wrote:
Mexican isn't a "race". He was simply making the point that the judge (who is an American, but whose parents are Mexican) was biased against him because of Trump's stance on illegal immigration / immigrants. No problem criticizing him saying it, but don't twist it into some sort of racist view. There's no indication that he would have had any problem with a Cuban-American judge hearing his case.


Of course claiming that all Mexicans or those of Mexican ancestry are against you is a racist view. Are you kidding me?

Race doesn't really exist at all, but racists think it does and certainly the claim that because of the national heritage of an American, that American cannot treat you fairly is a racist view.

Next you'll say that the internment of Japanese people in WWII wasn't "racist" because it wasn't against all Asians, just Japanese people. Give me a break.


Are you really arguing that race doesn't exist at all? Get a load of this guy shake
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deadkenny wrote:
1. Trump on abortion - he hemmed and hawed, clearly wanting to be "pro-life" for political purposes but otherwise not having any intention to do anything about it. FWIW here is the interview:


Yes but when he appoints supreme court justices radical enough to overturn abortion rights and signs the laws passed by the house and senate criminalizing abortion nationally, it's not going to matter that his heart isn't in it. The abortion doctors will still be just as in jail, the women getting back alley abortions will still be just as dead, and the many, many unwanted children being born will still be just as unwanted, and the many women who no longer have control of their bodies will still have lost bodily autonomy to the patriarchal state.

Terrible things don't just happen to people because someone really wants them to happen, they can also happen because someone is too weak to stop it from happening.

Regarding your mexican thing that sounds like a distinction without a difference. If it makes you feel any better, I'll say that if he is just an idiot who thinks it's acceptable to claim that a judge against him is biased because the judge is "a mexican" and all mexicans hate him, I won't vote for him even if that's not technically "racism" it's just "being a lying sack of crap idiot who baselessly slanders Americans whose parents were born in Mexico when put under pressure."
 
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Yeah. That'd be horrible. And is a completely reasonable fear.
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