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The U.S. Civil War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Benefits of Calvary rss

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Dale C
United States
Brewer
Maine
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Unless I am mistaken it looks like calvary is ideal for sneaking up north and ending their turn on a city or black circle hex. This allows a control marker to be placed and they receive 2vp at the end of that turn.

It does not appear they can ever be beaten as they can just move back one hex in retreat each time. If forced to retreat at some point, as long as the Conf. move last in the action phase they can end up on a vp hex and 2vp. Five turns of this with that unit and that is 10vp!!!

In fact the only way it appears they can be dealt with is a lucky roll in the winter attrition of a 6 to eliminate the foraging unit.

This sounds too good to be true, what obvious rule did I miss? haha, thanks for your time.

PS-love this game, I played the stuffing out of the VG Civil War. Although the random leaders was the main enjoyment of that game, I am giving it a go and playing several times with scripted leaders here and I still enjoy this game. If I ever tire of this game I could see inventing a leader casualty system like VG and not removing the scripted removals to make up for the casualties to give it some new flavor.
 
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Jim Dauphinais
United States
Chesterfield
Missouri
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dalec wrote:
Unless I am mistaken it looks like calvary is ideal for sneaking up north and ending their turn on a city or black circle hex. This allows a control marker to be placed and they receive 2vp at the end of that turn.

It does not appear they can ever be beaten as they can just move back one hex in retreat each time. If forced to retreat at some point, as long as the Conf. move last in the action phase they can end up on a vp hex and 2vp. Five turns of this with that unit and that is 10vp!!!

In fact the only way it appears they can be dealt with is a lucky roll in the winter attrition of a 6 to eliminate the foraging unit.

This sounds too good to be true, what obvious rule did I miss? haha, thanks for your time.


It is not as easy as it sounds. In particular, Cavalry can fail in its avoid battle die roll, be eliminated in battle and not come back for two turns. Furthermore, attrition during Winter Action Phases will eliminate the cavalry on a 5 or 6 (net +1 drm for Winter drm (+3) less attack rating of most Cavalry Leaders (2)).

Moreover, the Union player can to a degree contain the risk by committing some SPs to garrison duty in the more vulnerable Northern State Objective Hexes.

Nevertheless, the aggressive use of, or the threat of the aggressive use of, Confederate cavalry is an important part of Confederate strategy that helps to keep the Union player honest. In particular, it requires the Union player to devote some SPs and Action Points to deal with the threat.

Note that Cavalry control does not represent actual capture of the Objective Hex as much as essentially the raising of havoc on the outskirts of those Objective Hexes.

dalec wrote:
PS-love this game, I played the stuffing out of the VG Civil War. Although the random leaders was the main enjoyment of that game, I am giving it a go and playing several times with scripted leaders here and I still enjoy this game. If I ever tire of this game I could see inventing a leader casualty system like VG and not removing the scripted removals to make up for the casualties to give it some new flavor.


I am glad to hear you are enjoying the game.
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David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
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You also seem to have missed:

- They have to defeat an intrinsic garrison to occupy the objective hex in the first place. This is usually successful but not automatic.

- They can be isolated and roll for surrender. This is much more of a threat than attrition.

- A cavalry general with 2 attack will suffer attrition on 5-6 in winter, not just a 6.
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Jim Dauphinais
United States
Chesterfield
Missouri
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Yes, as David indicated, there is also the Intrinsic Union Garrisons, which require the Cavalry to attack the hexes.

However, under the Fall 2016 changes, Isolation is not the same risk it was in the past. Under the Fall 2016 changes, a Union SP (or fort) needs to be adjacent to force Isolated Confederate Cavalry to have to roll for Surrender. Intrinsic Garrisons are not SPs (actual SPs and Militia are SPs). This change was specifically made to facilitate Confederate cavalry raids north of the Ohio River when Pittsburgh is occupied by Union SPs.
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Dale C
United States
Brewer
Maine
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Excellent points, changes the way I played entirely, many things I missed...
1) obj hexes are the gray outlined city hexes, not just any city in the North, that would be much more difficult to occupy
2) forgot each obj hex contains an intrinsic garrison.
3) and also forgot to roll on the isolated table for that stranded cavalry unit
4)and obviously I need spelling help with cavalry in my headline (calvary)

Based on this I think cavalry are better suited within an army or to keep the Union honest in the south by being quickly able to remove the control markers and regain the captured BP hexes. The force to venture up North to wreak havoc would be a two star general with 6sp or less.

Excellent, thanks
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Jim Dauphinais
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Chesterfield
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Do not hastily swing the other way. As I have noted, the raids and the threat of such raids can be very effective with respect to draining Union SPs and Action Points. A major discovery during the additional playtesting conducted over the past six months was that many players have been too passive with respect to their use of Confederate cavalry. Ultimately, a balance needs to be maintained between raiding and supporting the dexterity of stacks.
 
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Chris Stimpson
United States
Westminster
Colorado
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jimdauphinais wrote:
the Fall 2016 changes


whatwhatwhat? Where are these? GMT site?

Also, surely the cavalry - just like anyone else - have to keep an LOC/supply line going? Which usually means having to be very careful about how you slip in behind the advancing Union columns so as to keep (usually) no more than 4 hexes away from a depot.

Assuming I have that right...
 
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Grant Linneberg
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
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cstimpson wrote:
jimdauphinais wrote:
the Fall 2016 changes


whatwhatwhat? Where are these? GMT site?

Also, surely the cavalry - just like anyone else - have to keep an LOC/supply line going? Which usually means having to be very careful about how you slip in behind the advancing Union columns so as to keep (usually) no more than 4 hexes away from a depot.

Assuming I have that right...


They do. That's what all the talk about rolling for foraging is about. They only have to forage when they are OOS.
 
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Jim Dauphinais
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Chesterfield
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cstimpson wrote:
jimdauphinais wrote:
the Fall 2016 changes


whatwhatwhat? Where are these? GMT site?


See

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1667032/fall-2016-rules...
 
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Chris Stimpson
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sushidog wrote:
cstimpson wrote:
jimdauphinais wrote:
the Fall 2016 changes


whatwhatwhat? Where are these? GMT site?

Also, surely the cavalry - just like anyone else - have to keep an LOC/supply line going? Which usually means having to be very careful about how you slip in behind the advancing Union columns so as to keep (usually) no more than 4 hexes away from a depot.

Assuming I have that right...


They do. That's what all the talk about rolling for foraging is about. They only have to forage when they are OOS.


Indeed. I guess I have always had the attitude that if you're into foraging then you've got yourself into a bad situation which you may not be able to resolve, so I tend to think "4 MPs LOC and the elastic goes tight!" But in reality you can exceed the 4 MPs temporarily without vaporizing your army.
 
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Grant Linneberg
Canada
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cstimpson wrote:
sushidog wrote:
cstimpson wrote:
jimdauphinais wrote:
the Fall 2016 changes


whatwhatwhat? Where are these? GMT site?

Also, surely the cavalry - just like anyone else - have to keep an LOC/supply line going? Which usually means having to be very careful about how you slip in behind the advancing Union columns so as to keep (usually) no more than 4 hexes away from a depot.

Assuming I have that right...


They do. That's what all the talk about rolling for foraging is about. They only have to forage when they are OOS.


Indeed. I guess I have always had the attitude that if you're into foraging then you've got yourself into a bad situation which you may not be able to resolve, so I tend to think "4 MPs LOC and the elastic goes tight!" But in reality you can exceed the 4 MPs temporarily without vaporizing your army.


Yup. Just make sure you don't stop in terrain that gives you an even worse DRM.
 
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Tom Stearns
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Houston
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Don't the Confederates also have to have a LOC from the northern objective city in order to get the VP's?
 
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Phil C
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No, you simply need to control the hex.
 
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