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Blood Bowl (2016 edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Disappointed rss

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Ethan Schaeffer
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I had had hoped, after all this time, for a reboot that would changed things up. This feels like an excuse for GW to make some coin.
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Brian Nors Jensen
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I am very exited about it, I really like how everything looks much nicer and the rules are unchanged.

This is perfect in my view.
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Richard Hellsten
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Nors wrote:
I am very exited about it, I really like how everything looks much nicer and the rules are unchanged.

This is perfect in my view.

Completely agree, the game didn't need a shake up, it needed to be available again with nice new minis. I have no trust that GW has any ability to write rules anymore so I'm very happy they left well alone.
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Brett Leeson
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I find this pretty funny, because there *are* a handful of tweaks and rebalancing and new abilities that have already leaked out or been announced, and there are people losing their minds about each and every one.

They're frankly in a pretty awkward spot, because if they stay too faithful and don't change much, people such as yourself don't see why they bothered. But then the purists get angry over every little tweak of the rules and complain it's change for change's sake, and the new team simply feeling the need to put their own stamp on the game for no reason.

I will say, though, that while (duh) they are trying to make some coin - they're not a charity, and one of the reasons they quit supporting Blood Bowl in the first place is that it was much harder to monetize than franchises like 40k with a steady stream of new models and yearly codex releaes - this is clearly much more than that.

They are relaunching and renewing their support for the franchise, and that's a big deal. New box set with fancy new contents and some design improvements as far as a bigger board, hexes, and miniatures. Brand new figures with brand new sculpts for all of the teams. A steady stream of planned releases over the next year or so.

But above all it is a relaunch of Blood Bowl, not a complete rebuilding, and I think making too many changes (especially based on the reaction of a great many players to some fairly insignificant changes announced thus far) would have alienated a lore of their core consumers.
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It's a bit weird that they are changing anything, given that the current ruleset has playtest data that probably outweighs any other assymetrical game ever. If anything was that wrong then it should have come out long before this.

On the other hand, if they want to make any changes then now is the time to do it. Just not sure why it needed to be split over the base game and Death Zone.
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Ron Price
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There is a very dedicated group of fans who've been keeping the game alive for the past ten years or so (to the extent that the last Blood Bowl World Cup had close to a thousand coaches), and they (we) overwhelmingly feel that the rules are the best they've ever been and don't want GW to "shake things up" there. I know I'd be pissed if they put out a game that invalidated my hundreds of dollars worth of minis (not that it would be "wrong," but it would turn me away from the game).

What it appears we will see is new optional league rules, fun "extras" like new balls and things of that sort--variations on the main game that should liven things up without changing the main game much.

I understand that a lot of people think the game's old-fashioned, and I don't entirely disagree, but it's my favorite of all time, and I'm excited they're doing it the way they are.

EDIT: And as far as "making coin" they could be trying to milk it a lot more--e.g., adding new positions and so on, thus invalidating all my minis so I'd have to rebuy all my teams (which, as I said, I wouldn't).
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Brian Nors Jensen
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CrookedWook wrote:
I find this pretty funny, because there *are* a handful of tweaks and rebalancing and new abilities that have already leaked out or been announced, and there are people losing their minds about each and every one.


Where can I read about thoose changes?
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Ryan R
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This thread lost it at "balancing" ...whistle
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Ron Price
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Nors wrote:
CrookedWook wrote:
I find this pretty funny, because there *are* a handful of tweaks and rebalancing and new abilities that have already leaked out or been announced, and there are people losing their minds about each and every one.


Where can I read about thoose changes?


http://theendzone.co/blog/blood-bowl-podcast-spoiler-roundup...

http://www.thenaf.net/2016/05/warhammerfest-roundup/

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Clinton Rice
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Nors wrote:
CrookedWook wrote:
I find this pretty funny, because there *are* a handful of tweaks and rebalancing and new abilities that have already leaked out or been announced, and there are people losing their minds about each and every one.


Where can I read about thoose changes?


The changes are incredibly minor. The ones we know of. We know the human catcher had its cost reduced by 10k (the computer game went the opposite approach and kept the price but raised its armor value, but the developers didn't feel the armor on the miniature justified a raised armor value).

And they removed Piling On from the basic rules but left it in as an option for those who wish to use it (with the intention being that you don't).

They have stated that making Piling On is the most intrusive change they've made. Other than a very minor skill they gave skaven gutter runners, these are all the changes we know of.

Nothing I am going to lose sleep over.

It's 99.44% still the most recent version of the living rulebook.
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N R
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"• skaven gutter runners now get a new skill, to reflect knifes on the miniature. Called "Weeping Dagger" (Extraordinary), they can reroll a Badly Hurt results (wow)."

So they give the gutter runners a mini Piling-On ability? I'm sure that will really help their life expectancy.

"• certain players will now get bored and try to retire after a certain time. You can stop them, but it comes at a higher rebuy cost"

Guess what rule I will never play with?
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Rich P
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OmegaDestroyer wrote:
"• skaven gutter runners now get a new skill, to reflect knifes on the miniature. Called "Weeping Dagger" (Extraordinary), they can reroll a Badly Hurt results (wow)."

So they give the gutter runners a mini Piling-On ability? I'm sure that will really help their life expectancy.


Weeping Dagger sounds next to useless to me. When do you ever block with a Gutter Runner?
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Dr. Love
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To the OP,

I understand your OP, (no pun here, juts a bad typist), but I am a diehard BB player, and after the launch today -- I would still recommend BB -- THIS release of BB to anyone.

I've played the CRP (competition Rules Pack), which is essentially the LRB (living Rule Book), which is essentially the rules as streamlined by Tom (I forget his last name, shame on me, the guy that runs Impact Miniatures), and in MY opinion, the one person singularly responsible for making the game playable and what we all have today.

Tom Anders -- I love this guy (and that's his name) otherwise knownt o some as GalakStarscraper.

Long rant here even longer, to the OP, keep an open mind, I don't feel like this BB release is a cash grab. Time will tell.

I will be purchasing a copy as soon as I can find a nice discount.

And, by the way, you and anyone interested in Fantasy Football and other minis games -- do your self a favor and check out Impact Miniatures website.

I have played pretty much every team except Orcs, Halflings, and chaos (although I have a full Chaos all-star team).

My son (now adult) plays exclusively Norse, and I play Ogres.

Which Tom helped me put together, by the way.

OP, don't be disappointed.

Embrace, baby.

And check out www.impactminiatures.com



 
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Ron Price
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woodnoggin wrote:
OmegaDestroyer wrote:
"• skaven gutter runners now get a new skill, to reflect knifes on the miniature. Called "Weeping Dagger" (Extraordinary), they can reroll a Badly Hurt results (wow)."

So they give the gutter runners a mini Piling-On ability? I'm sure that will really help their life expectancy.


Weeping Dagger sounds next to useless to me. When do you ever block with a Gutter Runner?


You don't; the designers acknowledge it's just there for flavor (because the new minis have the runners carrying daggers, which alarms me a little...)
 
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Clinton Rice
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puzzlemonkey wrote:
woodnoggin wrote:
OmegaDestroyer wrote:
"• skaven gutter runners now get a new skill, to reflect knifes on the miniature. Called "Weeping Dagger" (Extraordinary), they can reroll a Badly Hurt results (wow)."

So they give the gutter runners a mini Piling-On ability? I'm sure that will really help their life expectancy.


Weeping Dagger sounds next to useless to me. When do you ever block with a Gutter Runner?


You don't; the designers acknowledge it's just there for flavor (because the new minis have the runners carrying daggers, which alarms me a little...)


Precisely. This is why I said earlier that it was a very minor change. It's not going to affect game balance and it's not affecting the cost of gutter runners. If the change was useful, we would be paying more to get it or sacrificing something else.
 
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Rich P
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It doesn't feel all that flavourful to me, more like covering for a mistake they made when creating the miniatures. The dagger would be a Secret Weapon similar to the Goblin stuff. It should carry the chance of being caught when it's used and the player sent off.
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Clinton Rice
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woodnoggin wrote:
It doesn't feel all that flavourful to me, more like covering for a mistake they made when creating the miniatures. The dagger would be a Secret Weapon similar to the Goblin stuff. It should carry the chance of being caught when it's used and the player sent off.


So your solution would have been to completely re-purpose the gutter runner into a secret weapon? Considering the $#**storm that would have caused, I think they showed far more intelligence doing what they did.

And if the stab skill doesn't get a player thrown off the pitch, why should this? Considering how many players in Blood Bowl have tusks, horns, claws, spikes on their armor, etc., it's likely the league wouldn't consider a small knife a 'weapon'. This is a world removed from chainsaws and bombs.

And it is flavourful. Because there is virtually no mechanical benefit to it whatsoever. A sane player isn't using their strength 2 runner to block/blitz, so it's almost never going to come up in a game. And even if it does, the end result isn't anything you couldn't have rolled the first time.

And it's not a mistake. Skavens have traditionally been underhanded and known to bring knives on the pitch .It's perfectly in line with their character and their history in Blood Bowl.

So a weak ability that offers no numerical advantage, might be rolled once in a dozen games, and fits the character and history of the skavens. That's pretty much the definition of a flavor skill.

And it's still not worth getting anyone's panties twisted over.

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Rich P
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KoalaXav wrote:
woodnoggin wrote:
It doesn't feel all that flavourful to me, more like covering for a mistake they made when creating the miniatures. The dagger would be a Secret Weapon similar to the Goblin stuff. It should carry the chance of being caught when it's used and the player sent off.


So your solution would have been to completely re-purpose the gutter runner into a secret weapon? Considering the $#**storm that would have caused, I think they showed far more intelligence doing what they did.


Let's try and keep this friendly, please. That's not my solution. I'm not suggesting that would have been a good idea. Just that the "flavourful" change they've made only goes so far to accommodate flavour. My solution would have been to ignore the fact that the miniature doesn't quite match and not add the Weeping Dagger skill at all. Keep things simple.

I guess I should have written "why wouldn't the dagger be a Secret Weapon similar to the Goblin stuff and carry a chance of being caught when used and the player sent off?" To which you have provided your opinion of some answers.
 
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Clinton Rice
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woodnoggin wrote:
My solution would have been to ignore the fact that the miniature doesn't quite match and not add the Weeping Dagger skill at all. Keep things simple.


If you choose to play without weeping dagger, I can pretty much guarantee your enjoyment of the game will be unaffected, and skaven teams will be no more or less desirable to play.

Like I said, it's unlikely to come into play even if you do choose to use it. So why put this much thought into it?
 
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Albatrocity wrote:
I had had hoped, after all this time, for a reboot that would changed things up. This feels like an excuse for GW to make some coin.


Sub $100 price point.
At least 2 more teams coming.
A game engine that has been tweaked for well over 20 years.

No, I have to vehemently disagree
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"Lasers, Lots of Lasers"
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woodnoggin wrote:
OmegaDestroyer wrote:
"• skaven gutter runners now get a new skill, to reflect knifes on the miniature. Called "Weeping Dagger" (Extraordinary), they can reroll a Badly Hurt results (wow)."

So they give the gutter runners a mini Piling-On ability? I'm sure that will really help their life expectancy.


Weeping Dagger sounds next to useless to me. When do you ever block with a Gutter Runner?


I assume you've never played a Skaven team?

Gutter Runners have the biggest target on their head of the whole team.

They get blocked/blitzed constantly. Being able to reroll all Badly Hurt results you cause is fantastic. I've made a good few SPPs over the years with enemies skulling out against my Gutter Runners. Besides, stick some Horns on there, maybe Claw and you have a pretty keen Blitzer..

Although looking at the miniatures I think it may be the Blitzers that get this. It doesn't say which Skaven will have the skill and the Blitzers have noticeably more blades then the Gutter Runners. Nevermind, seen the Gutters on 360 view and they clearly have big knives.
 
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David Munch
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Narlgoth wrote:
I assume you've never played a Skaven team?

Gutter Runners have the biggest target on their head in the whole game.

I fixed that for you.

Gutter Runners are AWESOME.
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Clinton Rice
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Thain Esh Kelch wrote:
Narlgoth wrote:
I assume you've never played a Skaven team?

Gutter Runners have the biggest target on their head in the whole game.

I fixed that for you.

Gutter Runners are AWESOME.


In the whole game? So wait. If a gutter runner is headed toward the endzone with the ball, but a referee without body armor is foolish enough to be standing on the pitch at the same moment, who do you kill first?
 
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David Munch
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KoalaXav wrote:
Thain Esh Kelch wrote:
Narlgoth wrote:
I assume you've never played a Skaven team?

Gutter Runners have the biggest target on their head in the whole game.

I fixed that for you.

Gutter Runners are AWESOME.


In the whole game? So wait. If a gutter runner is headed toward the endzone with the ball, but a referee without body armor is foolish enough to be standing on the pitch at the same moment, who do you kill first?

That depends on what species you are...!
 
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William Chew
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Narlgoth wrote:
woodnoggin wrote:
OmegaDestroyer wrote:
"• skaven gutter runners now get a new skill, to reflect knifes on the miniature. Called "Weeping Dagger" (Extraordinary), they can reroll a Badly Hurt results (wow)."

So they give the gutter runners a mini Piling-On ability? I'm sure that will really help their life expectancy.


Weeping Dagger sounds next to useless to me. When do you ever block with a Gutter Runner?


I assume you've never played a Skaven team?

Gutter Runners have the biggest target on their head of the whole team.

They get blocked/blitzed constantly. Being able to reroll all Badly Hurt results you cause is fantastic. I've made a good few SPPs over the years with enemies skulling out against my Gutter Runners. Besides, stick some Horns on there, maybe Claw and you have a pretty keen Blitzer..

Although looking at the miniatures I think it may be the Blitzers that get this. It doesn't say which Skaven will have the skill and the Blitzers have noticeably more blades then the Gutter Runners. Nevermind, seen the Gutters on 360 view and they clearly have big knives.


I haven't played in about a decade, but had a skaven team once. I remember fouling all the time. Badly hurt Weeping blade would be pretty badass for fouling with the gutter runners.
 
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