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Subject: Ben Carson's HSA plan rss

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Steve Cates
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http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Ben_Carson_Health_Care.htm

I'm really hoping for an HSA (Health Savings Account) plan. I had one at a job I had years ago. I had a couple high cost events that hit the high deductible the first year, but then I was able to save to the plan and build up a little nest egg for just 2 years. I haven't been a part of an HSA plan for 8 years and I'm still using that account to pay for medical expenses and I can't add to it under my current "low deductible" plan which has a higher deductible than when I had the HSA "high deductible" plan.

Dr. Ben Carson was advocating giving every child at birth an electronic medical file and an HSA plan that could be seeded with the money currently tied up in the bureaucratic nightmare of a healthcare system we have. You could, of course, add to that throughout your life tax free. These accounts could be passed on to beneficiaries at death as well.

Another benefit of this is that prices for routine procedures would likely be published by doctors to compete for business just like all restaurants do for their food. I think this would be common place if people were forking over the dough from their HSAs. With insurance plans as they are, no body cares what it costs they just say insurance will cover it, who cares?
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Sam I am
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HSA work great until you get a life threatening illness that quickly drains it. They could be part of a possible solution.
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Greg Michealson
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What's his plan for people with preexisting conditions and getting health insurance?
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Chapel
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The birth of my last two children cost $75,000...Good luck trying to make that nest egg in two years.

No we have 18 years left to take care of whatever comes next.
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Donald
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Ben Carson wrote:
...and if you're a regular person you already get some health benefits.


What's a regular person? What if you're not?

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Sam I am
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Donald wrote:
Ben Carson wrote:
...and if you're a regular person you already get some health benefits.


What's a regular person? What if you're not?



Tough shit? Not to mention, to contribute to a HSA you need to have money to put in it. #firstworldproblems

Didn't he have some nonsense about bartering?
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Lee Fisher
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Our company is offering some plans with HSA this year. Some they'll even throw in 500/1000 to start. Not sure if it is worth it though...
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Oliver Dienz
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The problem with HSA plans is that we do not need any more savings. Bond and stock prices are already at pretty unsustainable levels because asset markets are drowning in cash looking for even a little bit of yield. Instead of spending it people believe they can prepare for the future by holding financial assets. Encouraging even more savings will further reduce demand and therefore our income. Unemployment likely to follow if not offset by increased borrowing. Here is some intro macro about the correlation between savings, income, and investment: http://heteconomist.com/planned-investmentsaving-and-keynesi...
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lfisher wrote:
Our company is offering some plans with HSA this year. Some they'll even throw in 500/1000 to start. Not sure if it is worth it though...
It's worth it if you don't go to the doctor at all. If you need care or have a major problem, it's not so great. I've had an hsa for the last 4 years and essentially hide from doctors. I'll prolly switch back to a regular plan next year as I foresee more health issues in the coming years.
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Lee Fisher
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odie73 wrote:
The problem with HSA plans is that we do not need any more savings. Bond and stock prices are already at pretty unsustainable levels because asset markets are drowning in cash looking for even a little bit of yield. Instead of spending it people believe they can prepare for the future by holding financial assets. Encouraging even more savings will further reduce demand and therefore our income. Unemployment likely to follow if not offset by increased borrowing. Here is some intro macro about the correlation between savings, income, and investment: http://heteconomist.com/planned-investmentsaving-and-keynesi...


Have you considered a resource based health plan?
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Jon Badolato
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Donald wrote:
Ben Carson wrote:
...and if you're a regular person you already get some health benefits.


What's a regular person? What if you're not?



Someone who eats lots of fiber. Eat more fiber.
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MWChapel wrote:
The birth of my last two children cost $75,000...Good luck trying to make that nest egg in two years.

No we have 18 years left to take care of whatever comes next.


I have never heard of a high-deductible plan with a $75000 deductible. Insurance premiums get a lot cheaper when you are talking more like $2000 though.

The HSA plan was about the only thing I agreed with Carson on. And that makes sense, since, unlike foreign policy (and pyramids), healthcare is something he is actually an expert in.
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ironcates wrote:
Another benefit of this is that prices for routine procedures would likely be published by doctors to compete for business just like all restaurants do for their food. I think this would be common place if people were forking over the dough from their HSAs.
For the record, insurance companies have been attempting to guide American healthcare in this direction for years now, but doctors want nothing to do with it. They practice in an industry where you come in for treatment, and you leave, and no one has any idea what the costs will be until the doctor & insurance company get done duking it out.

For proof, just start calling local doctors and asking them to see a menu of their procedures and associated out-of-pocket patient pricing. They will laugh in your face & hang up the phone.
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Greg Michealson
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happyjosiah wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
The birth of my last two children cost $75,000...Good luck trying to make that nest egg in two years.

No we have 18 years left to take care of whatever comes next.


I have never heard of a high-deductible plan with a $75000 deductible. Insurance premiums get a lot cheaper when you are talking more like $2000 though.

The HSA plan was about the only thing I agreed with Carson on. And that makes sense, since, unlike foreign policy (and pyramids), healthcare is something he is actually an expert in.


Did he mention anything about coverage even if you have preexisting conditions?
 
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happyjosiah wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
The birth of my last two children cost $75,000...Good luck trying to make that nest egg in two years.

No we have 18 years left to take care of whatever comes next.


I have never heard of a high-deductible plan with a $75000 deductible. Insurance premiums get a lot cheaper when you are talking more like $2000 though.

The HSA plan was about the only thing I agreed with Carson on. And that makes sense, since, unlike foreign policy (and pyramids), healthcare is something he is actually an expert in.


Carson's plan isn't HSA with a high deductible heath care plan on top of it, you can get that today (I have one). From your link

Quote:
I propose a system in which we use health empowerment accounts, which are like a health savings account with no bureaucrats. We give it to everybody from birth until death. They can pass it on when they die. We pay for it with the same dollars that we pay for traditional healthcare with. We give people the ability to shift money within their account within their family. So dad's $500 short, mom can give it to him.
Source: 2016 CNN-Telemundo Republican debate on eve of Texas primary , Feb 25, 2016


It's just plan that an HSA's like thing is opened for you on birth.

Quote:
CARSON: You have to replace it with something that makes sense. I have proposed a health empowerment account system. Everybody gets a health empowerment account the day they are born; they keep it until they die. They can pass it on. We pay for it with the same dollars that we pay for traditional health care with, recognizing that we spend twice as much as many countries per capita and health care and don't have as such access. We give people the ability to shift money within their health empowerment account so that each family basically becomes its own insurance company without a middleman; that saves you an awful lot of money. And that will lower the cost of your catastrophic insurance tremendously, because the only thing coming out of that is catastrophic health care. And then in terms of taking care of the indigent, we have another whole system; go to my website bencarson.com and read about it.
Source: 2016 ABC Republican debate on eve of N.H. primary , Feb 6, 2016


Is this telling us he wants a system where you are your own insurance company with a risk pool as big as just your family? This is an unworkable plan for everyone but the 0.00001%.
 
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I heard they'll give you a digital prostrate exam for 2 chickens and BJ.
 
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HSAs also don't work so well if you don't have much income.

So people with good incomes can afford to save - and are probably people who have decent health insurance.

I'd say it's a band-aid for a major wound, but that would be insulting to band-aids which DO have some uses. More like an aspirin for cancer.
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Mac Mcleod
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lfisher wrote:
Our company is offering some plans with HSA this year. Some they'll even throw in 500/1000 to start. Not sure if it is worth it though...


Oh gosh. $1000. The last time they miscoded my tests and thought I wasn't covered, the bill was $8900 bucks.

Woo hoo.

My co-worker who had a heart attack six years ago was out close to $70,000 plus a couple grand a year for several years.

My young friend who was naked insurance wise (because she was young and healthy) pre ACA was hit from behind by an SUV doing 70 and has passed $90,000 in medical bills. If she hadn't had insurance, she would have had to pay for that up front- and since she didn't have $90,000 lying around she would have gotten almost no physical or cognitive therapy. Yea, her brain is permanently fucked up and she has multiple cracked teeth from the accident. The ACA reduced the misery she will feel her entire life.

My friend who voted for trump and is going back to no insurance will return to her husband racking up massive bills and then not paying them. They are open about it. Hospitals have to treat you and he has serious emergency care level illness that only hits every few years. It'll kill him someday but in the mean time, instead of having insurance, he's going to use your insurance.

Another friend had to have blood pints of blood for an operation. Without insurance, they are $2000 each.


HSA's are awful for the bottom 80% and yet another tax evasion scam (increasing the deficit) for the top 20%.

With HSA's you are in a risk pool of "1" person. If you don't get sick, you have extra cash piled up. If you do get seriously ill, it won't be enough.

If you are republican and you sincerely want to help people without insurance then allow people without insurance to pay close to the discount rate for those with insurance for emergency care. The "rack" rate is rarely charged, rarely paid, and bankrupts those with assets when it is charged.

it's often 1000% higher than the insured rate. And very often if you have cash and you are not in an emergency they will charge you the insured rate (and sometimes LESS than the insured rate). If they can do that, we know the real cost (with a profit too) is that pre negotiated cash and insured price.

The reason insurance can work is that you take a large risk pool- say 1,000 people. Some of those (even young healthy ones) will "lose" the lottery and get sick but most will not. Then you can cover a $90,000 car accident.

Another point tho- private insurance premiums can *NEVER* be less than the actual cost of treating chronic conditions. If you are consistently getting $4,000 a year in services and pills, then your insurance premiums must be over $4,000 a year because they have to cover administration costs and the cost of random acute conditions/car accidents/etc.
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maxo-texas wrote:


HSA's are awful for the bottom 80% and yet another tax evasion scam (increasing the deficit) for the top 20%.


HSA's as part of a reasonable deductible, co-insurance levels and max-out-of-pocket insurance plan are an very reasonable thing for many people (and something you can get today).

However that's doesn't seem to be the plan that anyone is putting forth. They are talking about your only healthcare being the HSA which is unworkable for anyone.
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Jon Badolato
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Skyguard wrote:
happyjosiah wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
The birth of my last two children cost $75,000...Good luck trying to make that nest egg in two years.

No we have 18 years left to take care of whatever comes next.


I have never heard of a high-deductible plan with a $75000 deductible. Insurance premiums get a lot cheaper when you are talking more like $2000 though.

The HSA plan was about the only thing I agreed with Carson on. And that makes sense, since, unlike foreign policy (and pyramids), healthcare is something he is actually an expert in.


Carson's plan isn't HSA with a high deductible heath care plan on top of it, you can get that today (I have one). From your link

Quote:
I propose a system in which we use health empowerment accounts, which are like a health savings account with no bureaucrats. We give it to everybody from birth until death. They can pass it on when they die. We pay for it with the same dollars that we pay for traditional healthcare with. We give people the ability to shift money within their account within their family. So dad's $500 short, mom can give it to him.
Source: 2016 CNN-Telemundo Republican debate on eve of Texas primary , Feb 25, 2016


It's just plan that an HSA's like thing is opened for you on birth.

Quote:
CARSON: You have to replace it with something that makes sense. I have proposed a health empowerment account system. Everybody gets a health empowerment account the day they are born; they keep it until they die. They can pass it on. We pay for it with the same dollars that we pay for traditional health care with, recognizing that we spend twice as much as many countries per capita and health care and don't have as such access. We give people the ability to shift money within their health empowerment account so that each family basically becomes its own insurance company without a middleman; that saves you an awful lot of money. And that will lower the cost of your catastrophic insurance tremendously, because the only thing coming out of that is catastrophic health care. And then in terms of taking care of the indigent, we have another whole system; go to my website bencarson.com and read about it.
Source: 2016 ABC Republican debate on eve of N.H. primary , Feb 6, 2016


Is this telling us he wants a system where you are your own insurance company with a risk pool as big as just your family? This is an unworkable plan for everyone but the 0.00001%.


I agree. It sounds like Carson is pushing HSA accounts as a means for paying for one's medical expenses completely. And it sounds like he wants to eliminate the insurance companies all together. I'm all for eliminating for profit insurance companies from the equation but to do that you would really need to go to a single payer system. HSA accounts aren't going to get you very far if insurance companies are eliminated and everyone has to pay for their own medical expenses through their account. For instance, I certainly make a good wage. I contribute a bare minimum of 4,000 each year out of my salary to my HSA account which is legally capped by the way at a maximum contribution level of I believe 6,500 per year. Once I meet my family deductible for healthcare ( currently $ 4,000 per year ) then the insurance company picks up the rest. I do continue to pay a deductible for prescriptions. If the insurance company didn't pick up the rest my account would be drained in a matter of months as my wife's prescription alone probably amount to more than 1,000 per month and my son has several prescriptions as well. Unless actual prices for medical services and prescriptions were to drop considerably under Carson's plan then an HSA alone is going to be about as useless as a screen door on a submarine and be drained quickly for people with chronic conditions. Carson needs to go back to the drawing board.
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Sounds good (by that I mean terrible). Since Democrats lost the propaganda war on Universal Healthcare, we probably need a horrible system put in place to get the backing of the public again.
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Shampoo4you wrote:

Sounds good (by that I mean terrible). Since Democrats lost the propaganda war on Universal Healthcare, we probably need a horrible system put in place to get the backing of the public again.


From what I've seen here (from multiple conservative posters) and from behavior and voting patterns I've seen by conservative in office, I think they are not going to be able to resist abusing their power and grossly overdoing it and getting really ugly.

I do wonder if winning everything will do anything to relieve the rage boner they've had going for the last 20 years.

 
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mrspank wrote:
What's his plan for people with preexisting conditions and getting health insurance?


Republicans are the ones actually in favor of death panels.
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Terwox wrote:
mrspank wrote:
What's his plan for people with preexisting conditions and getting health insurance?


Republicans are the ones actually in favor of death panels.


Be nice it's death by willful neglect and apathy.
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I want a Carson HSA, but I can't afford to build the pyramid to store it in.
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