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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: Rolands cover up.... rss

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Eric Oh
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So I got Rolands cover up right at the end of a scenario with 1 clue left.. lol this game... is there anyway out of it?
 
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John Steinbach
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You're actually fine. Here's the relevant card text:

COVER UP

Revelation – Put Cover Up into play in your threat area, with 3 clues on it.
[Reaction] When you would discover 1 or more clues at your location: Discard that many clues from Cover Up instead.
Forced – When the game ends, if there are any clues on Cover Up: You suffer 1 mental trauma.

The reaction effect triggers when you would discover a clue. Instead of discovering those clues, you may discard clues from Cover Up. But the original clues that would have been discovered remain on the location.

So, you just need to successfully investigate three times and trigger the reaction on Cover Up each time. At the end of that process, there will still be a clue left on your current location.
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Matthew McFarland
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Cover Up won't remove the clue token from that location. You just remove clues from Cover Up until they're gone, or end up taking the mental trauma if you can't get everything done by the Resolution.

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Eric Oh
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But those mental traumas. D:
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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Lacey
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It's enough to drive you crazy...
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Paul Gibson
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It's only the one trauma, at least that's how I read it. It says if there are any take 1 trauma rather than take one trauma per clue.
 
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Mark Chamberlain
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What if there are no clues left? Everywhere has a challenge value, even the places that don't inherently spawn clues...
 
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Paul Gibson
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If there are no clues left then you're stuck with the weakness and take a trauma at the end of the scenario.

At least that's the way I've played it.
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Mark Chamberlain
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I've been playing that way, too. Arkham's Razor seems to side with us, too, that if you're out of clues, then you can't discover clues.

It's just... you're not discovering clues, you're covering things up. What is the gamestate difference between a location with seven clues, a location with one clue, and a location with none?
On the one hand, since he's not discovering so much as covering up, it makes sense that there need not be any clues.
On the other hand, it does not say, yanno, "put three tokens on here. investigate to remove them," it says, when you would discover a clue. And if there are not clues to discover...
Sigh. I'm going to keep playing as though he needs extant clues to cover up, but it's a killer.
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Dan Gillette
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oggeymoggel wrote:
What if there are no clues left? Everywhere has a challenge value, even the places that don't inherently spawn clues...


There do not have to be clues on a location to investigate it. Just as Skids can burgle a location with no clues to get resources, so too can Roland coverup in a location with no clues.
 
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I've been playing as if there has to be a clue on a location to be able to remove one off of cover up instead.

Using "would" seems to imply this. Otherwise wouldn't the card just say perform investigation skill check on current location?

I think I saw this clarified elsewhere (can't recall), Reddit maybe?
 
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Matthew McFarland
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clarkie82 wrote:
I've been playing as if there has to be a clue on a location to be able to remove one off of cover up instead.

Using "would" seems to imply this. Otherwise wouldn't the card just say perform investigation skill check on current location?


This seems correct to me as well. It's a "replacement effect."
 
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Scott Dockery
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oggeymoggel wrote:
Sigh. I'm going to keep playing as though he needs extant clues to cover up, but it's a killer.


For what it's worth, the employee running the demo at Arkham Nights said that he didn't need a clue at his location to fulfill Cover Up. It was a pretty hasty ruling, so I'm not sure how officially you should take it (it sounds rather suspect to me, but so does the idea of Roland taking unavoidable mental trauma).
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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Please bear with my rules-editor-lawyer-ness...and I am making this up, I'm no official rules person for this game.

"Cover Up" has a Reaction: "When you would discover 1 or more clues at your location: Discard that many clues from Cover Up instead."

The Investigate action (RR, p13) says the only qualification on performing this action is "an action an investigator may take during his or her turn in the investigation phase." It does NOT say anything about the location must have clues.

"Each time an investigator takes this action, he or she makes an intellect test against the shroud value of that location." Again, you can take the test at the location as directed, with no mention of clues.

"If the test is successful, the investigator has succeeded in investigating the location, he or she discovers one clue at the location."

So instead of "discovers one clue", a successful test would "Discard that many clues from Cover Up instead."

The action goes on to say: "Any time an investigator discovers a clue from a location, that player takes the clue from the location and places it on his or her investigator card, under his or her control."

The act of taking the clue token from the location follows AFTER the investigator has successfully "discovered a clue".

So it seems to me the order is:
a) during your investigation phase you may take the "investigate action".
b) investigate action requires an intellect test against the shroud value of your location.
c) successful tests "discover one clue at the location"
d) discovery allows you to take one clue from the location.

In a way, "Cover Up" simply changes the result at "c" before "d" would happen.

Honestly, I find this sort of rule writing to be WAY too complicated.
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Matthew McFarland
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While I think you can Investigate a location with no clues on it, I still don't think that clears Cover Up. You're forgetting that under Clues it reads: "A card or ability that refers to clues 'at a location' is referring to the undiscovered clues that are currently on that location."
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Andrew Keddie
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Yeah, whilst you can certainly take the investigate action at a location with no clues, you can't discover a clue at a location with no clues. If you can't "discover a clue at your location", you can't replace "discover a clue at your location" with another effect.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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So, investigators take note! Always keep a clue on a low-shroud location if Roland is around and you have ye tto draw Cover-up
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Phoenix Bird
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From the bottom of the Reddit thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/arkhamhorrorlcg/comments/5ceq2x/rul...

“I sent Matthew Newman the rules question and he replied with this.

Cover Up says “(React) When you would discover 1 or more clues at your location: Discard that many clues from Cover Up instead.” In order for you to be able to use this ability, there has to be at least 1 clue on your location – if there are no clues at your location, then the replacement effect can’t trigger. You can totally replace clues discovered by Working a Hunch or Roland’s ability using the effect on Cover Up, but again, only if there’s actually that many clues to discover at your location.
...
Note that this is different from a card that replaces the entire effects of a successful test with something else completely. Burglary, for example, says to investigate, and if successful, you gain 3 resources instead of discovering clues. This will work even if there aren’t any clues in your location. (It’s not specifying a specific number of clues like Cover Up is, it’s just telling you to replace the act of discovering clues with gaining 3 resources.)

I understand it’s a bit of a rules grey area. I suppose it's a little easier to appreciate from a flavor perspective: in order to Cover Up what’s going on, there has to be evidence, right? (in the form of clues). But there doesn’t need to be any clue around in order for you to steal $ from wherever you are.

Hopefully this helps! =D



Phoenix
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David Boeren
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Speaking as a veteran of several other LCGs, this is typical FFG writing (similar text exists in their other games and works like this).

If a rule says "when you would X" then it can't trigger unless X was possible, so a clue would have to exist.

If a rule say "instead of X", then whether X is possible is irrelevant because you're not doing it, so no clue needs to exist.

Think of "when you would X" meaning "a split second before X happens rewind time and trigger some effect". This effect may or may not affect how X occurs, depends on the card, but X still needs to be able to occur.
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