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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Acolyte rss

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Dax is
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An Acolyte states, after Acolyte enters play: Place 1 doom on it. If an Acolyte is in play due to setup does it count as entering play?
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Dusty
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daxis32 wrote:
An Acolyte states, after Acolyte enters play: Place 1 doom on it. If an Acolyte is in play due to setup does it count as entering play?


I can't think of any setup instructions which would put the Acolyte into play but in theory I think it would. EDIT: Right 2+ players in scenario 2 does this.

On page 27 of the rules reference guide it says:

"There are no action windows during setup. Players may only
trigger player card abilities or play cards from hand during setup
if the card or ability’s specific triggering condition is met."

By that logic the same would be true for any encounter cards that entered play during step 10 of setup.
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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daxis32 wrote:
An Acolyte states, after Acolyte enters play: Place 1 doom on it. If an Acolyte is in play due to setup does it count as entering play?

Yes.

Page 13, Rules Reference: "A card enters play when it transitions from an out-of-play origin to an in play area."

So if during setup an Acolyte goes from out of play to being spawned to a location, it "enters play" which then triggers placing 1 doom on it.
 
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ParisianDreams
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It's in scenario 2 that the instructions state to do so. I'm not sure if it's correct, but we always add a doom as it's 'entering play'
 
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Eric Martin
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That must be pretty rough for a four-player game - 3 Doom already on the table just during setup yuk
 
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Kelly B
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emart40x wrote:
That must be pretty rough for a four-player game - 3 Doom already on the table just during setup yuk


Yeah, we got owned by that one (our four player game) pretty quickly. At least now we are prepared eh? I find preparation for what is to come counts for a lot in this game. Fortunately that preparation doesn't involve hours of deck construction, instead we just clear the board and go again.
 
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Phoenix Bird
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Well I’ve never seen Richard be wrong so far but I have to disagree.

When is the transition taking place?

Setup happens before the game begins.

At no point was the Acolyte “Out of Play.” It started in play.

On the card, the Forced ability comes after the Spawn ability, which would normally put it into play.

Phoenix
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Scott Dockery
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Except the Doom is the entire point of the Acolyte. It spawns somewhere out of the way, and you have to deal with it before it advances the Agenda. The multiple setup Acolytes are there to potentially make the investigators split up at the start. If they didn't have their Doom, it would make the scenario easier, since they'd be unable to show up later to bother you.
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Richard A. Edwards
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Phoenix_Bird wrote:
When is the transition taking place?

Setup happens before the game begins.

At no point was the Acolyte “Out of Play.” It started in play.

On the card, the Forced ability comes after the Spawn ability, which would normally put it into play.

The setup instructions in question say "search the gathered encounter sets for 1 copy of Acolyte. Spawn it at..."

So the setup instructions are to Spawn the Acolyte.

Spawn says "If a card ability instructs the players to spawn an enemy in a particular location (for example: “Search the encounter deck for an Acolyte and spawn it in Southside”), treat the ability causing the card to enter play as the enemy’s spawn instruction, overriding any other spawn instruction."

As you said, the Forced ability comes AFTER the Spawn instruction.

So the card enters play when it is spawned, then the Forced ability, "After Acolyte enters play: Place 1 doom on it." is triggered.

It is interesting that the example is exactly the card we are discussing, as if FFG knew it would come up.



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Phoenix Bird
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SirRoke wrote:

The setup instructions in question say


Phew!

That’s lucky. I didn’t think you were going to be wrong.

I haven’t stopped replaying the first scenario yet so I haven’t encountered the text, which would definitely seem to make sense as you describe it.

Thanks for solving a problem in my future I was never even aware of.

Man, you’re good!

Phoenix
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Richard A. Edwards
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Thanks, Phoenix, for the kind words. But I assure you I'm wrong more often than I wish! And I always appreciate a good Rules debate.
 
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mplain
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SirRoke wrote:
Spawn says "If a card ability instructs the players to spawn an enemy in a particular location (for example: “Search the encounter deck for an Acolyte and spawn it in Southside”), treat the ability causing the card to enter play as the enemy’s spawn instruction, overriding any other spawn instruction."

This is a description on how spawning via a card ability works. But the Campaign Guide is not a card. You're not spawning the Acolytes via a card ability in this case.
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Richard A. Edwards
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mplain wrote:
SirRoke wrote:
Spawn says "If a card ability instructs the players to spawn an enemy in a particular location (for example: “Search the encounter deck for an Acolyte and spawn it in Southside”), treat the ability causing the card to enter play as the enemy’s spawn instruction, overriding any other spawn instruction."

This is a description on how spawning via a card ability works. But the Campaign Guide is not a card. You're not spawning the Acolytes via a card ability in this case.

True.

The point is that "Spawn" causes a card to "enter play" which then triggers other effects on the card being spawned.

Other rules under Spawn in the RR also mention they enter play, but none specifically mention during setup instructions from the campaign guide.

I will infer that Spawn generally means the cards enter play and so other effects are applied, but it is true that's an inference, not an exact Rules quote.

Have I mentioned how much I dislike the lengthy legalese of the RR?
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mplain
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I like the Rules Reference just fine. But this particular issue is not clear enough. It need to be addressed in the FAQ, is all.
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Matthew Sigal
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I'm almost positive that the Acolytes spawn at the start of the campaign with doom - but remember, this doom doesn't get moved to the Agenda, just counts toward the counter. All you have to do is kill the Acolyte and their doom disappears from the gamestate.

This puts an appropriate amount of pressure in the early game of that scenario.
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Richard A. Edwards
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Twitch_City wrote:
I'm almost positive that the Acolytes spawn at the start of the campaign with doom - but remember, this doom doesn't get moved to the Agenda, just counts toward the counter. All you have to do is kill the Acolyte and their doom disappears from the gamestate.

This puts an appropriate amount of pressure in the early game of that scenario.

Exactly.
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Skulk Ing
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Thanks, Matthew.

I was just coming to ask what happens to the Acolyte's doom when the Acolyte was defeated. I hoped that was what happened but could find no text to verify it. I'm in the middle of a game, and I rather go with you instead of the grim rule for now. ;)
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