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Captain Sonar» Forums » General

Subject: first game with 8 players rss

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metallon metallonorg

Berlin
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Hi Captain Sonars,
I just completed my first 4 rounds with 8 players.
I noticed that the when Captain A launched a sonar then Captain B was
using this "wait for my reaction time" to basically talk about the next 5 moves or so. The same happened when Captain B fired a torpedo. The
game break time was used to discuss the next 5-10 moves in detail following
a rapid execution of orders in 5 seconds. Engineer and First Officer new what their Captain B planned so no surprises.
This broke the game for us and we had to agree to not discuss future moves. Speaking per-planned commands can block the other team.
That turned out to be difficult because the Captain needs to tell the engineer and first officer to some detail what he/she is planning.
Anyone had a similar situation?meeple
 
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Michael Mench
United States
Annandale
Virginia
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Two things... be quicker with the response to a sonar request and 2 set a 30 second timer when needed.

M
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Barry Miller
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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Don't remember where I read this, so it may be official or not, but the ruling should be that when a captain yells, "Stop!", only the two captains are allowed to speak (to each other).

Be it announcing a surfacing, employing a drone, firing a torpedo, going silent, dropping a mine, detonating a mine, or employing Sonar, the first Captain yells, "Stop!" then announces one of the above actions. Then the second Captain responds. That's it! There should be no other discussion between any crew members while these actions are being resolved.

The only exception would be if the first Captain needs to verify with his crew, what the target coordinate is, in the case of detonating a mine or firing a torpedo.

Remember, "Stop!" means exactly that!

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Sean Herman
United States
Sussex
Wisconsin
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In interpret the following phrase from the rules to mean that all other players are silent except the captain. You stop the game when you have already made your decision and you resume after the activation has been resolved. "2 •  Announce “STOP” and raise a fist. All other players stop what they are doing and listen."
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metallon metallonorg

Berlin
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Hi Michael, Thanks for the response.
A timer...interesting. You mean a timer to allow the other side only 30 seconds to plan their moves ahead so
that everyone gets at least 30 seconds..Its kind of turn based then isnt it?
@Barry, also a good idea. that would mean checking all systems before the captain calls stop but would not
prevent some crazy team who planned 15 moves ahead to execute those 15 moves. it seems like we are proposing
here to --prevent-- some communication. which seems to me a tricky issue in a came where communication is everything.
@sean. could this lead to a lot "oh sorry, doesnt system x is broken" go on

I think strategic play often involves set patterns of movements which often results in subs moving in very similar ways.
However the ice-map resolved this problem. it was too complex to arrange a pre-movement pattern.

and pre-game sessions or while-waiting-for-responses a decision-by-committee drag evolved.
I find it really hard to think about a way to restricit communication.
We always had the situation where a strong-player engineer was almost telling the captain what to do.
 
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Alex Ringgaard
Denmark
Copenhagen
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The way I've played it, is very much in line with Berrys interpretation. We do the following:

1. A captain calls STOP
2. Everyone stops what they are doing (including talking), looks up and establishes eye contact with their opposite.
3. Captain announces a system to activate
4. Engineer looks down and calls "system online/offline"
5. First mate looks down and erases the system charge (no matter how much it had) and calls "system charged/not charged"
6. If both the engineer and the first mate confirmed system operation the enemy captain responds (if needed)
7. Everyone is now free to look down and resume operation/talking

Quote:
We always had the situation where a strong-player engineer was almost telling the captain what to do.

In my (limited) experience this sounds like a losing strategy (or at least a weak one). Sure the engineer can keep system online most of the time, but he can't really see the captains map to know not only what moves are legal, but what moves are smart and he certainly can't see/communicate with the radio operator who (hopefully) knows a bit about where the other sub is. It's not enough to simply move, you have to move with purpose. At least that's what my games have shown so far, your experience may vary
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metallon metallonorg

Berlin
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Hi Alex,
thanks for the response.
So it seems like we were talking way too much.
Whenever a captain said STOP a huge discussion broke out on both sides
talking over movements, systems, what to do next. The captains on both sides
where leaning over to see what the engineering looks like or a strong engineer what
leaning over to talk moves through with the captain. I got the feeling the -faster- you move
the more you can do. more mines, more sonar, loading up silence, etc.
I think the no-talking when a captain says STOP sounds good.
We had one guy who was saying north , north. north, north, east (example) in 3 seconds
and then called sonar to find us. we had literally NO time to respond. he called his next
commands exactly the same. in 3 seconds, to sonar us again...a bit weird.
our captain had no time to say a single thing. it was like a rush/overload of the game it seems.
 
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Barry Miller
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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metallon wrote:
Whenever a captain said STOP a huge discussion broke out on both sides talking over movements, systems, what to do next.

Lol! That's all sort of contrary to the definition of "Stop!", isn't it?

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metallon metallonorg

Berlin
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Hi Barry.
Yes. But even the people in the playthrough videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDlXVf_eA78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0IKiuA6oSI
struggle with it sometimes and a the Captain looks over to the engineer and asks which moves to you need to fix X,y,z.

Do you not think I think that a dominant captain takes over all stations or an dominant engineer tells the captains which moves to do next?
 
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Barry Miller
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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metallon wrote:
Yes. But even the people in the playthrough videos struggle with it sometimes and a the Captain looks over to the engineer and asks which moves to you need to fix X,y,z.

True. But as far as I'm concerned, the intent of the "Stop!" order is for the Captain and his crew to have all that worked out before the Captain yells, "Stop!"

My group has a few games under our belt and that's the way we do it. For instance, if the opposing Captain yells, "Stop!" then proceeds to talk with his crew to check on this or verify that, I cry foul. (Even though I sometimes slip and catch myself doing that myself when I'm Captain - it's human nature until the group becomes honed and experienced).

But getting back to me calling "foul" (in a light-hearted way, of course)... if the Captain is going to employ Sonar for instance, and after yelling "Stop!" he then proceeds to check with his FM and Engineer to see if Sonar is even available, is when we cry "foul". Why? Because he should be checking with his crew and confirming it's availability BEFORE he yells, "Stop!"

Because what's expected, and what I believe the intent of the game to be, is that it should go like this:

Captain A (to crew): "Engineer, do we have Sonar available"
Engineer A: "Yes"
Captain A (to crew): "First Mate, do we have Sonar ready"
First Mate A: "Yes"
Captain A (to all): "Stop!"

(Everyone stops what they're doing and stops talking. Up to this point, sub B's crew has been active.)
Captain A (to Captain B): "We are employing Sonar"
(Captain B thinks about his reply for a few seconds, and may confer with his crew to help arrive at a reply, but this is the only extent that conversation should be allowed, and it should be reasonably quick))
Captain B (to Captain A): "Sector 2, Row 5"
Captain A (to crew): "Radio Operator, you got that"?
Radio Operator A: "Yes".
Captain A (to all): "Continue!"

(That last part, after Captain B gives his answer, is what we came up with as a group, to help define the end of the "Stop!" action).

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