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Subject: All this name calling. rss

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andrew
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So there's been quite a bit of discussion here since the election result and the conservative are often want to call someone a "libtard". Apart from the suffix being insensitive to actual special needs folk, this just seems wrong.

I grew up in a very conservative family and towed that line until I got a job and actually worked for a living. At which point I met a bunch of barely-educated, well meaning folk who worked pretty diligently, but who's efforts were never going to get them anything other than their next pack of smokes or a cold beer. This was actually a big reality check for me..

My social values changed and I find my self happily calling my self a liberal. While I totally understand peoples fear of leftist politics, I just don't get the acrimony towards liberalism? I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business..

I even wondered if I was labeling my self poorly, so I did some googling and these values really are what liberalism is about?

I'm struggling to see how any of these beliefs make me mentally deficient (that suffix) or dangerous?
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Corey Clark
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because those that call themselves liberals now are about scapegoating a subset of the population associated with the idea of power (white males) and suppressing free speech, They are not liberal at all. Just because they are subversive in the extreme doesn't indicate that they respect and value a difference of opinion. By painting anyone they disagree with with the broadest PC brush they prove time and time again that they are not liberal.
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Drew
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Those "barely-educated, well meaning folk who worked pretty diligently, but who's efforts were never going to get them anything other than their next pack of smokes or a cold beer" that you claim you side with and that this therefore marks you out as a "liberal"?

Over here, the "liberals" smack them around, call them names, insult them, demean their way of life, toss racial epithets at them, and generally treat them like shit.

In a nutshell, this is why Trump won.
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Les Marshall
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Labeling you and discarding your arguments based on group vilification is easier than addressing the substance of your opinions. Civil discourse took a huge hit with the advent of the inter net. Anonymous cowards sitting at keyboards are free to indulge their darkest impulses without regard to consequences. Trumps victory is only going to embolden those who regard civility as some kind of weakness.
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andrew
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Drew1365 wrote:
..that you claim you side with ..


My post never said any such thing...

Observing their plight just made me rethink the whole trickle down economy I use to believe in..
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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Liberals are such nice people.

They almost never demean people, or call names, simply because of minor political disagreements.

They almost never cheer in RSP when a person with slightly differing views passes away.

They almost never have to mischaracterize people who desire to get a sensible handle on immigration as knuckle dragging Nazis.

They are truly a cut above.

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Kissa
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There's also the issue that the liberal party in australia is not the same as the liberal party in the us.
 
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andrew
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So within this descriptor there are some arse holes.
So we judge everyone against them..

But back to my original question. I'm still interested in which of my values is so horrible..
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andrew
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KissaTaikuri wrote:
There's also the issue that the liberal party in australia is not the same as the liberal party in the us.


The liberal party in Australia is a cash cow for corporations and big business. Free market only in name.

No I don't support them and understand the difference.
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Drew
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antiussentiment wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
..that you claim you side with ..


My post never said any such thing...

Observing their plight just made me rethink the whole trickle down economy I use to believe in..


Oh, so then you really don't care about their plight. What are they to you? Just a useful tool for ushering in Rule by the Chosen Elites?
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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Drew1365 wrote:
Oh, so then you really don't care about their plight. What are they do you? Just a useful tool for ushering in Rule by the Chosen Elites?


He started by appointing himself spokesperson for "The World".
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Drew
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Rulesjd wrote:
Trumps victory is only going to embolden those who regard civility as some kind of weakness.


As we've seen on the streets of Portland and other "liberal" enclaves this week.
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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antiussentiment wrote:
....I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business....


I don't think any of that gets you labelled a "libtard". On the other hand, when you start appointing yourself spokesperson for "The World", assuming that everyone shares your world view or that your world view is the only correct one, or those who themselves use racial slurs while accusing others of being racist or advocate that those who's speech supposedly incites others to violence should be murdered, well.....
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Kissa
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Drew1365 wrote:
antiussentiment wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
..that you claim you side with ..


My post never said any such thing...

Observing their plight just made me rethink the whole trickle down economy I use to believe in..


Oh, so then you really don't care about their plight. What are they to you? Just a useful tool for ushering in Rule by the Chosen Elites?
Dude, you really have a way of twisting people's words around. Where did he say he didn't care about someone's plight? He was relating an experience and asked a question. You answered that liberals were horrible because they beat up and demeaned those working class people which is a simplistic and not fully correct answer. They are demeaned for their religious values which promote hate and separatism. The anti gay and anti women's rights issues are what they are beat up for and not their general way of life.

Member when racism was great, member when we could beat up gays, member when women should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen... member?
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Kissa
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deadkenny wrote:
He started by appointing himself spokesperson for "The World".
you seem to be wearing the same funky reading goggles as drew. where did he appoint himself that?
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Steven Woodcock
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antiussentiment wrote:
So there's been quite a bit of discussion here since the election result and the conservative are often want to call someone a "libtard". Apart from the suffix being insensitive to actual special needs folk, this just seems wrong.

I grew up in a very conservative family and towed that line until I got a job and actually worked for a living. At which point I met a bunch of barely-educated, well meaning folk who worked pretty diligently, but who's efforts were never going to get them anything other than their next pack of smokes or a cold beer. This was actually a big reality check for me..

My social values changed and I find my self happily calling my self a liberal. While I totally understand peoples fear of leftist politics, I just don't get the acrimony towards liberalism? I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business..

I even wondered if I was labeling my self poorly, so I did some googling and these values really are what liberalism is about?

I'm struggling to see how any of these beliefs make me mentally deficient (that suffix) or dangerous?


Firstly, it's "wont" not "want" in this context.

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


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andrew
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deadkenny wrote:
antiussentiment wrote:
....I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business....


I don't think any of that gets you labelled a "libtard". On the other hand, when you start appointing yourself spokesperson for "The World", assuming that everyone shares your world view or that your world view is the only correct one, or those who themselves use racial slurs while accusing others of being racist or advocate that those who's speech supposedly incites others to violence should be murdered, well.....


When I was working in the US, I very quickly became aware, most folk there have no idea how the rest of the world views them. I'm sorry if my choice of words was clumsy, I was really just voicing the offshore tide of opinion I had observed.
 
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andrew
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Ferretman wrote:


Firstly, it's "wont" not "want" in this context.


thanks for pointing out my typo. I actually make loads of them. Re-reading posts helps with some of them, but others are bound to get though.

EDIT; Hey I just went and checked.. That is actually the context i was looking for..

Ferretman wrote:

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


Does this mean you think it's ok?
An eye for an eye and all

 
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Drew
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KissaTaikuri wrote:
Dude, you really have a way of twisting people's words around. Where did he say he didn't care about someone's plight?


I assume that his "reality check" when he got to know these poor downtrodden people that he started to empathize with them.

I guess he didn't.

Quote:
They are demeaned for their religious values which promote hate and separatism. The anti gay and anti women's rights issues are what they are beat up for and not their general way of life.


These things you just mentioned were not part of his description. You added those traits of your own accord. I wonder why?

Quote:
Member when racism was great, member when we could beat up gays, member when women should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen... member?


Nope. Racism was never great. Beating up gays was never great. The problem with "liberals" (who as stated above, aren't actually liberal) is that they presume their ideological opponents must have these traits. And in fact, in order for conservatives to be your perfectly hate-worthy demons, you must ascribe these beliefs to them.

Should you actually take time to get to know them, you might come to understand that they aren't demons after all, and you might emphasize with their plight.

Or you might end up like the OP and recoil at the very idea that you side with these horrible demons.
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Drew
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antiussentiment wrote:
When I was working in the US, I very quickly became aware, most folk there have no idea how the rest of the world views them. I'm sorry if my choice of words was clumsy, I was really just voicing the offshore tide of opinion I had observed.


Your offshore opinion is quite well advertised. I wonder why you expect people from the United States to not treat you with suspicion given your internet handle.

I recommend creating a sock puppet if you don't want your poorly-chosen username to be a barrier to conversation.

Because it is.
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Drew
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KissaTaikuri wrote:
deadkenny wrote:
He started by appointing himself spokesperson for "The World".
you seem to be wearing the same funky reading goggles as drew. where did he appoint himself that?


A different thread.
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Drew
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I mean, geez, if I understand the OP, he grew up conservative, got to know the working poor, as a result he decided he was a liberal, but really doesn't empathize with the working poor at all, because . . . gross!

And if that's the case, well . . . yeah, you're pretty much like an American Democrat.

U.S. Democrats used to style themselves as the party of the poor, the downtrodden, and the working man, and they promised to go after those in power to bring JUSTICE! or something.

But that hasn't been true for decades. Perhaps a century. Maybe not ever.

They never punch up. They only punch down.
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andrew
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Drew1365 wrote:


Your offshore opinion is quite well advertised. I wonder why you expect people from the United States to not treat you with suspicion given your internet handle.

I recommend creating a sock puppet if you don't want your poorly-chosen username to be a barrier to conversation.

Because it is.


Only with some. It's a good filter actually and I'm happy to stand behind it. I feel having a socket puppet account is a bit weak.

And I'm not trying to change opinions here. I feel that's for people to do alone..
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andrew
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Drew1365 wrote:
I mean, geez, if I understand the OP, he grew up conservative, got to know the working poor, as a result he decided he was a liberal, but really doesn't empathize with the working poor at all, because . . . gross!


Actually I went a bit lefty for a while in my early working days.. But yeah.. Nahh.. Command economics is not my thing.



Drew1365 wrote:

U.S. Democrats used to style themselves as the party of the poor, the downtrodden, and the working man, and they promised to go after those in power to bring JUSTICE! or something.

But that hasn't been true for decades. Perhaps a century. Maybe not ever.

They never punch up. They only punch down.


And yeah.. I totally agree with that.
 
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Steven Woodcock
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antiussentiment wrote:

Ferretman wrote:

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


Does this mean you think it's ok?
An eye for an eye and all



No, I'm pointing out that you only used one example that called out conservatives; the rest of your post is hardly a non-partisan cry for civility. It reads more as "why do you conservatives keep calling people names?" which, as I have pointed out and you seem to agree, is not exactly unbiased. It's rather more like "have you stopped beating your wife yet?".


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