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Subject: All this name calling. rss

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andrew
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So there's been quite a bit of discussion here since the election result and the conservative are often want to call someone a "libtard". Apart from the suffix being insensitive to actual special needs folk, this just seems wrong.

I grew up in a very conservative family and towed that line until I got a job and actually worked for a living. At which point I met a bunch of barely-educated, well meaning folk who worked pretty diligently, but who's efforts were never going to get them anything other than their next pack of smokes or a cold beer. This was actually a big reality check for me..

My social values changed and I find my self happily calling my self a liberal. While I totally understand peoples fear of leftist politics, I just don't get the acrimony towards liberalism? I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business..

I even wondered if I was labeling my self poorly, so I did some googling and these values really are what liberalism is about?

I'm struggling to see how any of these beliefs make me mentally deficient (that suffix) or dangerous?
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because those that call themselves liberals now are about scapegoating a subset of the population associated with the idea of power (white males) and suppressing free speech, They are not liberal at all. Just because they are subversive in the extreme doesn't indicate that they respect and value a difference of opinion. By painting anyone they disagree with with the broadest PC brush they prove time and time again that they are not liberal.
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Les Marshall
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Labeling you and discarding your arguments based on group vilification is easier than addressing the substance of your opinions. Civil discourse took a huge hit with the advent of the inter net. Anonymous cowards sitting at keyboards are free to indulge their darkest impulses without regard to consequences. Trumps victory is only going to embolden those who regard civility as some kind of weakness.
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andrew
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Drew1365 wrote:
..that you claim you side with ..


My post never said any such thing...

Observing their plight just made me rethink the whole trickle down economy I use to believe in..
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Liberals are such nice people.

They almost never demean people, or call names, simply because of minor political disagreements.

They almost never cheer in RSP when a person with slightly differing views passes away.

They almost never have to mischaracterize people who desire to get a sensible handle on immigration as knuckle dragging Nazis.

They are truly a cut above.

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Kissa
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There's also the issue that the liberal party in australia is not the same as the liberal party in the us.
 
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andrew
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So within this descriptor there are some arse holes.
So we judge everyone against them..

But back to my original question. I'm still interested in which of my values is so horrible..
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KissaTaikuri wrote:
There's also the issue that the liberal party in australia is not the same as the liberal party in the us.


The liberal party in Australia is a cash cow for corporations and big business. Free market only in name.

No I don't support them and understand the difference.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Oh, so then you really don't care about their plight. What are they do you? Just a useful tool for ushering in Rule by the Chosen Elites?


He started by appointing himself spokesperson for "The World".
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antiussentiment wrote:
....I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business....


I don't think any of that gets you labelled a "libtard". On the other hand, when you start appointing yourself spokesperson for "The World", assuming that everyone shares your world view or that your world view is the only correct one, or those who themselves use racial slurs while accusing others of being racist or advocate that those who's speech supposedly incites others to violence should be murdered, well.....
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Drew1365 wrote:
antiussentiment wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
..that you claim you side with ..


My post never said any such thing...

Observing their plight just made me rethink the whole trickle down economy I use to believe in..


Oh, so then you really don't care about their plight. What are they to you? Just a useful tool for ushering in Rule by the Chosen Elites?
Dude, you really have a way of twisting people's words around. Where did he say he didn't care about someone's plight? He was relating an experience and asked a question. You answered that liberals were horrible because they beat up and demeaned those working class people which is a simplistic and not fully correct answer. They are demeaned for their religious values which promote hate and separatism. The anti gay and anti women's rights issues are what they are beat up for and not their general way of life.

Member when racism was great, member when we could beat up gays, member when women should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen... member?
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deadkenny wrote:
He started by appointing himself spokesperson for "The World".
you seem to be wearing the same funky reading goggles as drew. where did he appoint himself that?
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antiussentiment wrote:
So there's been quite a bit of discussion here since the election result and the conservative are often want to call someone a "libtard". Apart from the suffix being insensitive to actual special needs folk, this just seems wrong.

I grew up in a very conservative family and towed that line until I got a job and actually worked for a living. At which point I met a bunch of barely-educated, well meaning folk who worked pretty diligently, but who's efforts were never going to get them anything other than their next pack of smokes or a cold beer. This was actually a big reality check for me..

My social values changed and I find my self happily calling my self a liberal. While I totally understand peoples fear of leftist politics, I just don't get the acrimony towards liberalism? I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business..

I even wondered if I was labeling my self poorly, so I did some googling and these values really are what liberalism is about?

I'm struggling to see how any of these beliefs make me mentally deficient (that suffix) or dangerous?


Firstly, it's "wont" not "want" in this context.

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


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andrew
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deadkenny wrote:
antiussentiment wrote:
....I'm self employed, love the idea of free market systems, believe in freedom of choice of the individual and understand not all people have the same ability to support them selves. I'm also an economic rationalist who hates wasted taxpayer dollars. Particularly the favoritism conservative governments tend to pay corporations over small business....


I don't think any of that gets you labelled a "libtard". On the other hand, when you start appointing yourself spokesperson for "The World", assuming that everyone shares your world view or that your world view is the only correct one, or those who themselves use racial slurs while accusing others of being racist or advocate that those who's speech supposedly incites others to violence should be murdered, well.....


When I was working in the US, I very quickly became aware, most folk there have no idea how the rest of the world views them. I'm sorry if my choice of words was clumsy, I was really just voicing the offshore tide of opinion I had observed.
 
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Ferretman wrote:


Firstly, it's "wont" not "want" in this context.


thanks for pointing out my typo. I actually make loads of them. Re-reading posts helps with some of them, but others are bound to get though.

EDIT; Hey I just went and checked.. That is actually the context i was looking for..

Ferretman wrote:

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


Does this mean you think it's ok?
An eye for an eye and all

 
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Drew1365 wrote:


Your offshore opinion is quite well advertised. I wonder why you expect people from the United States to not treat you with suspicion given your internet handle.

I recommend creating a sock puppet if you don't want your poorly-chosen username to be a barrier to conversation.

Because it is.


Only with some. It's a good filter actually and I'm happy to stand behind it. I feel having a socket puppet account is a bit weak.

And I'm not trying to change opinions here. I feel that's for people to do alone..
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Drew1365 wrote:
I mean, geez, if I understand the OP, he grew up conservative, got to know the working poor, as a result he decided he was a liberal, but really doesn't empathize with the working poor at all, because . . . gross!


Actually I went a bit lefty for a while in my early working days.. But yeah.. Nahh.. Command economics is not my thing.



Drew1365 wrote:

U.S. Democrats used to style themselves as the party of the poor, the downtrodden, and the working man, and they promised to go after those in power to bring JUSTICE! or something.

But that hasn't been true for decades. Perhaps a century. Maybe not ever.

They never punch up. They only punch down.


And yeah.. I totally agree with that.
 
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antiussentiment wrote:

Ferretman wrote:

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


Does this mean you think it's ok?
An eye for an eye and all



No, I'm pointing out that you only used one example that called out conservatives; the rest of your post is hardly a non-partisan cry for civility. It reads more as "why do you conservatives keep calling people names?" which, as I have pointed out and you seem to agree, is not exactly unbiased. It's rather more like "have you stopped beating your wife yet?".


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andrew
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Ferretman wrote:
antiussentiment wrote:

Ferretman wrote:

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


Does this mean you think it's ok?
An eye for an eye and all



No, I'm pointing out that you only used one example that called out conservatives; the rest of your post is hardly a non-partisan cry for civility. It reads more as "why do you conservatives keep calling people names?" which, as I have pointed out and you seem to agree, is not exactly unbiased. It's rather more like "have you stopped beating your wife yet?".


Ferret


I should have made the post a little more clear. Sorry for that.
It was not about calling out conservatives for name calling so much.
I was more interested in which of the values I perceive as liberal would want to make conservatives call people names..
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Drew1365 wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Dude, you really have a way of twisting people's words around. Where did he say he didn't care about someone's plight?


I assume that his "reality check" when he got to know these poor downtrodden people that he started to empathize with them.

I guess he didn't.
Why do you guess that? He said that conservative trickle down economics were not working for these people. Sounds empathetic to me.


Drew1365 wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
They are demeaned for their religious values which promote hate and separatism. The anti gay and anti women's rights issues are what they are beat up for and not their general way of life.


These things you just mentioned were not part of his description. You added those traits of your own accord. I wonder why?
No need to wonder. I've lived in plenty of places including the middle of the country and had more blue collar jobs than I've had white collar while barely scraping by a living. No one is saying all conservatives share these values but a very large number do in the middle of this country. Granted the pc enforcement has gone way overboard by liberals but a lot of this country is still horribly racist, homophobic, and misogynistic.

Dre1365 wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Member when racism was great, member when we could beat up gays, member when women should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen... member?


Nope. Racism was never great. Beating up gays was never great. The problem with "liberals" (who as stated above, aren't actually liberal) is that they presume their ideological opponents must have these traits. And in fact, in order for conservatives to be your perfectly hate-worthy demons, you must ascribe these beliefs to them.
This is doing the exact same thing to liberals as you are claiming is done to conservatives. This country is deeply divided by values issues. Myself, being an anti religious bigot, blame the hate preached by a fundamentalist interpretation of religion and unfortunately you find those values in great numbers there.

Drew1365 wrote:
Should you actually take time to get to know them, you might come to understand that they aren't demons after all, and you might emphasize with their plight.

Or you might end up like the OP and recoil at the very idea that you side with these horrible demons.
There are problems on both sides and middle america has been forgotten. Their jobs have been shipped away and automation is chipping away at the last of them. Unfortunately, they seem to be voting for people who are responsible for removing their jobs due to their religious values. It's a sad state of affairs. I've had to morph and move many times to find work but I realize this isn't possible for everyone. What do you do with a labor force that has a skill set that is no longer relevant? Further, what do you do with that labor force when they cling to archaic ideas that are harming them and refuse to change with the times? The "conservative" politicians with trickle down economics are robbing them blind and yet they keep putting them in office.
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antiussentiment wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
antiussentiment wrote:

Ferretman wrote:

Secondly, conservatives ain't the only ones calling people names, or even using the most vile language.


Does this mean you think it's ok?
An eye for an eye and all



No, I'm pointing out that you only used one example that called out conservatives; the rest of your post is hardly a non-partisan cry for civility. It reads more as "why do you conservatives keep calling people names?" which, as I have pointed out and you seem to agree, is not exactly unbiased. It's rather more like "have you stopped beating your wife yet?".


Ferret


I should have made the post a little more clear. Sorry for that.
It was not about calling out conservatives for name calling so much.
I was more interested in which of the values I perceive as liberal would want to make conservatives call people names..


Okay, fair enough and thank you for clarifying.


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antiussentiment wrote:


I should have made the post a little more clear. Sorry for that.
It was not about calling out conservatives for name calling so much.
I was more interested in which of the values I perceive as liberal would want to make conservatives call people names..


You're not like the small segment of the US population that has somehow adopted the brand of "liberal". They aren't liberal at all. They are entrenched in the pursuit of pure identity politics. That's essentially the ideology of separating themselves into small special interest subgroups and then attacking anything that doesn't cater specifically to their self-proclaimed identity agenda, declaring politics not suited to them specifically as racist or bigoted or hateful.

I am not making this up Andrew and they aren't hiding it at all. It's not even subtle - just look at the reaction that a fractionally inconsequential portion of Americans have had on the post-election news cycle. Their numbers of pitiful but the same Big Media that sold the entire world the lie that Trump could not possibly beat Clinton is now selling the lie that "America is in flames". That's just not true. Not even a little. There are already several documented (with pics) sets of evidence that these protesters are not only NOT spontaneous, but that they are being bused in. In places like Austin Texas the buses were stupidly parked within 6 blocks.

Big Media, here and in your country, could care about that, they want to cover the false stories of hijab wearing college girls being robbed by young men wearing Trump hats. For fuck's sake, how ignorant does a person have to be to believe that. One of the stories has already been confessed as a fabrication and the others will fall. But the Media here won't show the video footage of black street youth pulling an aging white man out of his car, pounding the living shit out of him and then stealing the car - all while accusing him of voting for Trump.

It's in the internet, they posted it. But it's not in the news.

Is that who you identify with? Paid protesters being bused into urban areas to tear shit up for the cameras while pretending they are somehow fearful of the KKK? Because that's not liberal and I don't think that's you. But it is a few here in RSP, well, maybe even more than a few. And FaceBook is full of those people. They are the ones being justifiably called every name in the book and the fact that true liberals, one's who have an ideology that is about policy or programs that forward the nation rather than just blacks, or just gays, or just Native American transsexual Wiccan Spirit Cookers. Identity politics is why Hillary Dirtbag Clinton rightfully lost. She and her gaggle of criminal cronies didn't give two fucks about the actual liberals, they enlisted the Libtards who flock to the special groups so they can wallow in self pity while pointing an accusing finger at "white male oppression". They are bogus and I know just enough about you over the last decade to know you aren't one of them. They deserve every demeaning comment or name they are called because they are truly total pieces of shit.

And Clinton lost because she treated them special while treating the rest of her so-called constituency like shit. Whatever Trump is -- and he is not a conservative any more than Hillary and her Identity Ideologues are liberal -- he's like X100 better than that aging criminal hag.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Rulesjd wrote:
Trumps victory is only going to embolden those who regard civility as some kind of weakness.


As we've seen on the streets of Portland and other "liberal" enclaves this week.


Why do you repeatedly engage in these type of shallow observations?

What is a liberal? What are the collective opinions that all such people hold? Do ALL liberals take to the streets to protest? Does all protest turn violent?

You just continue to generalize.

Trump was a unique candidate. He engaged in repeatedly rude, uncivil, and biased rhetoric throughout his campaign and apparently was embraced for it.

He told us a judge couldn't be impartial due to his ethnic heritage. That all members of a religious persuasion ought to be treated differently. That illegal immigrants from Mexico were largely rapists and murderers.

He constantly belittled his opponents with absurd nicknames like Lyin' Ted Cruz or Little Marco or crooked Hillary. Accused Cruz's father of being behind the Kennedy assassination.

He nursed the birther farce for years, even after the birth certificate was produced and then blamed Hillary for "starting it".

He suggested that people at his rally's should knock the hell out of protesters and that he would pay the legal fees.

Essentially, Trump chose to show contempt and disrespect to EVERY person or group who remotely got in his way or offered a lever of discontent among his supporters.

Now that the election is over you want all those individuals and groups he either insulted or threatened to behave in the most meek and civil of fashions for his benefit? Trump taught us one very important lesson in 2016. Say anything you want, regardless of it's truth and apologize for naught.

Of course, this follows Mitch McConnel's pledge to defeat Obama a the very start of his first term, Jan Brewer shaking her finger in Obamas' face and Rep. Joe Wilson calling Obama a liar on the House floor. And now you want Trump shown respect?

Apparently, disrespect is the new norm and this new president will surely reap what he has sown.
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Rulesjd wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Rulesjd wrote:
Trumps victory is only going to embolden those who regard civility as some kind of weakness.


As we've seen on the streets of Portland and other "liberal" enclaves this week.


Why do you repeatedly engage in these type of shallow observations?

What is a liberal? What are the collective opinions that all such people hold? Do ALL liberals take to the streets to protest? Does all protest turn violent?

You just continue to generalize.

Trump was a unique candidate. He engaged in repeatedly rude, uncivil, and biased rhetoric throughout his campaign and apparently was embraced for it.

He told us a judge couldn't be impartial due to his ethnic heritage. That all members of a religious persuasion ought to be treated differently. That illegal immigrants from Mexico were largely rapists and murderers.

He constantly belittled his opponents with absurd nicknames like Lyin' Ted Cruz or Little Marco or crooked Hillary. Accused Cruz's father of being behind the Kennedy assassination.

He nursed the birther farce for years, even after the birth certificate was produced and then blamed Hillary for "starting it".

He suggested that people at his rally's should knock the hell out of protesters and that he would pay the legal fees.

Essentially, Trump chose to show contempt and disrespect to EVERY person or group who remotely got in his way or offered a lever of discontent among his supporters.

Now that the election is over you want all those individuals and groups he either insulted or threatened to behave in the most meek and civil of fashions for his benefit? Trump taught us one very important lesson in 2016. Say anything you want, regardless of it's truth and apologize for naught.

Of course, this follows Mitch McConnel's pledge to defeat Obama a the very start of his first term, Jan Brewer shaking her finger in Obamas' face and Rep. Joe Wilson calling Obama a liar on the House floor. And now you want Trump shown respect?

Apparently, disrespect is the new norm and this new president will surely reap what he has sown.


Impressive list. Which one separates him from a liberal?

And that's why conservatives have their eye on him.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Rulesjd wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Rulesjd wrote:
Trumps victory is only going to embolden those who regard civility as some kind of weakness.


As we've seen on the streets of Portland and other "liberal" enclaves this week.


Why do you repeatedly engage in these type of shallow observations?

What is a liberal? What are the collective opinions that all such people hold? Do ALL liberals take to the streets to protest? Does all protest turn violent?

You just continue to generalize.

Trump was a unique candidate. He engaged in repeatedly rude, uncivil, and biased rhetoric throughout his campaign and apparently was embraced for it.

He told us a judge couldn't be impartial due to his ethnic heritage. That all members of a religious persuasion ought to be treated differently. That illegal immigrants from Mexico were largely rapists and murderers.

He constantly belittled his opponents with absurd nicknames like Lyin' Ted Cruz or Little Marco or crooked Hillary. Accused Cruz's father of being behind the Kennedy assassination.

He nursed the birther farce for years, even after the birth certificate was produced and then blamed Hillary for "starting it".

He suggested that people at his rally's should knock the hell out of protesters and that he would pay the legal fees.

Essentially, Trump chose to show contempt and disrespect to EVERY person or group who remotely got in his way or offered a lever of discontent among his supporters.

Now that the election is over you want all those individuals and groups he either insulted or threatened to behave in the most meek and civil of fashions for his benefit? Trump taught us one very important lesson in 2016. Say anything you want, regardless of it's truth and apologize for naught.

Of course, this follows Mitch McConnel's pledge to defeat Obama a the very start of his first term, Jan Brewer shaking her finger in Obamas' face and Rep. Joe Wilson calling Obama a liar on the House floor. And now you want Trump shown respect?

Apparently, disrespect is the new norm and this new president will surely reap what he has sown.


Impressive list. Which one separates him from a liberal?

And that's why conservatives have their eye on him.


Why don't you tell us Einstein? What is a liberal? Why is Trump to be viewed as one?
 
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