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Subject: Questions about Enmity in box 4 rss

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John Breckenridge
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My group opened up box 4 last session and we had a few questions about how enmity counts were effected.
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Ker says to something along the lines of (sorry, don't have the rules in front of me) "all islands have enmity equal to their enmity count or the count on this island, whichever is greater". Obviously this will effect things like good costs and garrison values for the islands, but should the islands be treated as having that enmity for other purposes as well? For example, if find some natives who tell you to roll dice equal to number of enmity you have on islands and you have two on Ker, should you be rolling like >20 dice? That doesn't seem quite right, but RAW that seems to be what it is saying. Also there is an event card added to the deck right around when we opened box 4(I don't recall it's letter or trigger, sorry) which imposes a restriction on advisers based on enmity on islands. With RAW it seems to indicate that with even 1 enmity on Ker that you would not be able to use any advisers at all. Which would be fine, perhaps that is the point, except it says to destroy the event card if Ker is ever conquered. This indicates to me that it should probably be having variable effects during the time when Ker is still unconquered.


Generally it seems like things will work if the effect is applied to everything, but it seems like many unintended consequences.
 
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David desJardins
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I'm not sure there's a rules question here. You seem to be asking whether this is a good rule, not what the rule is.
 
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John Breckenridge
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All right here is the blunt super straightforward rules question:
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Does the enmity on Ker count as being on all islands for ALL purposes when counting enmity on islands? Or is it instead considered to be on an island only for purposes of increased costs and garrison? Or perhaps it should be considered being on islands only when a single island is being looked at instead of when looking at all islands?


A strict interpretation of the rules points to the first option, but either of the other two make much more sense to me from a design standpoint. There have been several other examples of rules questions where a strict interpretation of the rules is not what the designers wanted.
 
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David desJardins
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My own opinion is that they wrote the rule without even thinking much about the consequences. To reason about what the rule should be based on its consequences only makes sense if you believe the designers thought through those consequences. I don't.
 
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John Breckenridge
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If anyone else could offer their thoughts on this issue it would be much appreciated; my group is playing tomorrow and this will have a major impact on our game
 
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Becq Starforged
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We've got the major unlock you referred to in our game, but I can't say that I've seen every possible effect that might interact with that unlock. But since you asked for opinions, I'll give you mine. Just keep in mind that it's in no way official.
(Box 4 spoilers)
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First, I'm going on memory (I don't have the Patmos card in front of me to reference), but my recollection is that the wording is very close to what you wrote. (I'll try to update this once I can confirm the wording, either at home or if someone can quote the text.)

Next, let's define three terms:
"actual enmity" is the actual number of relevant enmity stickers and tokens on a particular island.
"Ker's enmity" is the actual enmity on Ker (and I believe that enmity tokens on the Patmos card would count toward this, assuming Ker is it's governor -- and if it's not, then the rest of this discussion is irrelevant).
"effective enmity" for a given island would be that island's actual enmity, or Ker's enmity, whichever is greater.

It's clear to me that any time you need to reference the enmity on a particular island, you should use effective enmity. So if having enmity on a particular island allows/prevents/hinders/improves an action, then enmity on Ker will matter. Raids and goods prices are clear examples of where effective enmity would be used.

Strictly speaking, when you are asked to sum the enmity you have on all islands, the rules seem to indicate that you should sum up effective enmity. So unless one or more islands had more enmity than Ker, this would basically work out to ((Ker's enmity)*(number of islands)).

That said, I suspect that the *spirit* of the rule is that Ker's enmity provides an "enmity floor" whenever enmity matters. As such, when summing enmity, you'd add up "actual enmity" for all islands, counting Ker's enmity only once.

You should probably discuss this with your table. If you all agree on an alternate interpretation, then go for it. But if you don't agree, then you should probably go with the strict reading.


Either way, an official answer would be nice.
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verrey matthieu
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hum for my self ; in our game the biggest problem was we got more enmity than /possible enmity case....what we do in this case ??
 
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Becq Starforged
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Usul68 wrote:
hum for my self ; in our game the biggest problem was we got more enmity than /possible enmity case....what we do in this case ??

Not sure what you're saying, so I'll take a guess that you're asking about what happens if you need to place more enmity than there are boxes available. In that case, you just follow the rules: each player places their enmity in the order indicated in the entry that told you to do so. Once the last box is full, you continue placing enmity stickers, covering over stickers from other factions (not your own). If one player somehow manages to fill up all of the boxes, then he loses one glory for each additional sticker he couldn't place.

Hope that helped! If I guessed wrong, please elaborate on your question...
 
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