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Falling Sky: The Gallic Revolt Against Caesar» Forums » Rules

Subject: March in place rss

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Giuseppe Tamba
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Is possible to March in the same region just to hidden warbands/auxilia?
I have not found it in the rulebook.

Regards,
 
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Michal K
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Yes, you can do it.

"3.3.2 March. Marching moves and/or hides Gallic Forces."
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Giuseppe Tamba
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Thanks Michael
Do the Romans the same?
Or the Auxilia are more difficult to hide, and must move at least one region?
The rules for roman march and gallic march are different.

May be the logic of the rule is that auxilia are more visible and difficult to disappear than warbands, it's the same logic of the retreat in the same region, gauls may, Romans can't.
 
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Alex P
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Have you tried to read rule 3.2.2, especially the procedure? Read it literally, it's very clear.
 
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Shonai Dweller
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Gallic rules say to move "if desired". Roman rules say to move each group "as desired" with the move into a second region "if desired".
Roman rules also say to "move and hide" whereas gallic rules say "move and/or hide".

Reading that literally, it seems that, no you can't March auxiliaries in place. But would like to see someone else's interpretation. Not really sure if there's actually a difference between "as desired" and "if desired".
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Rodger Samuel
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Alex, I think that when people who seem likely not to be native English speakers ask questions, it's not especially helpful to tell them to read the rules. I think they're hoping that someone's answer may confirm or correct the impression they received by reading the rules in a language foreign to them.

That being said, I believe Shonai is correct. Gauls can march "in place" in order to hide. Romans must actually march to another destination for their Auxilia to hide.

Hopefully, someone with more expertise than I will give us a reliable answer.
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Oerjan Ariander
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Rule 3.2.2 says that you flip all Revealed Auxilia in a March Origin space to Hidden before any units are moved.

It does not say that you have to form one or more Marching group in each selected (and paid-for) March origin space...

Regards,
Oerjan
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Niko
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Oerjan wrote:
Rule 3.2.2 says that you flip all Revealed Auxilia in a March Origin space to Hidden before any units are moved.

It does not say that you have to form one or more Marching group in each selected (and paid-for) March origin space...

Regards,
Oerjan
Jup, procedure of the text seems pretty clear to me that all auxilia are hidden and then you may move units out of the region "as desired"
Quote:
Origin Region by origin Region, flip all Revealed Auxilia to Hidden; then, as desired, move each Marching group one by one together into an adjacent Region and, if desired, March into a 2nd Region that is now adjacent to the group.
 
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Shonai Dweller
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So, why not use "if desired" to be consistent with the rest of the rules?
Why omit "/or" from the Roman march rules?

Not saying you're wrong, but generally Falling Sky's rules use pretty consistent vocabulary.
 
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Niko
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Shonai_Dweller wrote:
So, why not use "if desired" to be consistent with the rest of the rules?
Why omit "/or" from the Roman march rules?

Not saying you're wrong, but generally Falling Sky's rules use pretty consistent vocabulary.
Lets compare the rules text (not player aid cards!) for the march procedures:
First Gallic
Quote:
Origin Region by origin Region, flip all the Marching Faction’s Revealed Warbands there to Hidden; or, for Scouted Warbands (4.2.2), instead remove the Scouted marker and leave them Revealed; then move each Marching group one by one together into an adjacent Region, if desired.
and Roman
Quote:
Origin Region by origin Region, flip all Revealed Auxilia to Hidden; then, as desired, move each Marching group one by one together into an adjacent Region and, if desired, March into a 2nd Region that is now adjacent to the group.


Text is different and I do not know why it isn't more standardized, but also don't really see a reason why it should be as both are clear to me. The difference is limited to the placement of "if/as desired" though; Gallic places it at the end, Roman at the beginning of a sentence part.

Why the player aid cards don't match with regard to "and/or" I don't know, but it sounds like that should be changed to match to avoid confusion.
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Shonai Dweller
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I haven't checked the player aid cards. The rule begins "and" in the rulebook and "and/or" for gallic march.

Marching moves Roman Forces and hides revealed Auxilia.

As opposed to:

Marching moves and/or hides Gallic Forces.

 
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P. Fowler
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Shonai_Dweller wrote:
I haven't checked the player aid cards. The rule begins "and" in the rulebook and "and/or" for gallic march.

Marching moves Roman Forces and hides revealed Auxilia.

As opposed to:

Marching moves and/or hides Gallic Forces.


The parts under PROCEDURE explain how the Command works. Both of these lines are from the first sentence and are there to generally explain what the Command does.
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Niko
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Turbine2k5 wrote:
Shonai_Dweller wrote:
I haven't checked the player aid cards. The rule begins "and" in the rulebook and "and/or" for gallic march.

Marching moves Roman Forces and hides revealed Auxilia.

As opposed to:

Marching moves and/or hides Gallic Forces.


The parts under PROCEDURE explain how the Command works. Both of these lines are from the first sentence and are there to generally explain what the Command does.
Exactly, see my post above for quotes of the procedures.
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Alex P
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DrZaat wrote:
Alex, I think that when people who seem likely not to be native English speakers ask questions, it's not especially helpful to tell them to read the rules.


I don't like to give people fish. And I helped to pinpoint the exact bit of the rule that needed to be understood.

Quote:
PROCEDURE: Origin Region by origin Region, flip all Revealed
Auxilia to Hidden
;


It doesn't take a native to understand the underlined part. I.e. if they don't understand "flip all revealed to hidden", they need to download a translation and use paste-ups for the cards before they can even start understanding the game.

If what was meant "flip all revealed units that will be moving to hidden", that's what would have been written, I would think.
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Shonai Dweller
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Jesse Custer wrote:
DrZaat wrote:
Alex, I think that when people who seem likely not to be native English speakers ask questions, it's not especially helpful to tell them to read the rules.


I don't like to give people fish. And I helped to pinpoint the exact bit of the rule that needed to be understood.

Quote:
PROCEDURE: Origin Region by origin Region, flip all Revealed
Auxilia to Hidden
;


It doesn't take a native to understand the underlined part. I.e. if they don't understand "flip all revealed to hidden", they need to download a translation and use paste-ups for the cards before they can even start understanding the game.

If what was meant "flip all revealed units that will be moving to hidden", that's what would have been written, I would think.

That's very unhelpful, since if you took the time to read what's being asked, you'll see that people were unsure if auxiliary can stay where they are after flipping. There's no confusion about the part you quoted, as you say it's very clear.
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Alex P
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Text is different and I do not know why it isn't more standardized, but also don't really see a reason why it should be as both are clear to me.


Probably different because they're not robots. Just like if I see "X number of units are killed" vs "X number of units die" I suspect it means exactly the same thing unless "killed" and "die" are key words like "Battle" or "March". Key words are easily edited after the writing of a document, everything else can't be (efficiently, at least). Can't expect them to do a search for all "if"s and "as"s...
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Alex P
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Shonai_Dweller wrote:
That's very unhelpful, since if you took the time to read what's being asked, you'll see that people were unsure if auxiliary can stay where they are after flipping. There's no confusion about the part you quoted, as you say it's very clear.


If you think so you can wait for a more helpful answer. I think it's helpful to show the logic in how to solve your own problems. You disagree? Wait for someone else who agrees with you and knows the answer.
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Niko
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Shonai_Dweller wrote:
Jesse Custer wrote:
DrZaat wrote:
Alex, I think that when people who seem likely not to be native English speakers ask questions, it's not especially helpful to tell them to read the rules.


I don't like to give people fish. And I helped to pinpoint the exact bit of the rule that needed to be understood.

Quote:
PROCEDURE: Origin Region by origin Region, flip all Revealed
Auxilia to Hidden
;


It doesn't take a native to understand the underlined part. I.e. if they don't understand "flip all revealed to hidden", they need to download a translation and use paste-ups for the cards before they can even start understanding the game.

If what was meant "flip all revealed units that will be moving to hidden", that's what would have been written, I would think.

That's very unhelpful, since if you took the time to read what's being asked, you'll see that people were unsure if auxiliary can stay where they are after flipping. There's no confusion about the part you quoted, as you say it's very clear.
And it very clearly says to flip all auxilia in activated regions to hidden, no indication that they need to move. Since this is the most relevant part of the rules (the section labeled "procedure") it should govern.
The only argument that has been raised so far that indicates the opposite is a use of "and" rather than "and/or" in the summary and to me that just isn't enough to start following that interpretation.

The difference in wording between Gallic and Roman isn't ideal, but as Alex pointed out it is understandable and to me doesn't hinder understanding of it since the meaning is identical.
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Bob S.
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So, getting back to the OP's question, auxilia and warbands first flip to hidden (if currently revealed) and then may march to an adjacent province.

(That's how I remembered it but didn't have the text before me so was glad other folks did.)

[If I recall, the player aid card reverses that order of flip/march...?]

Cheers,
/Bob
 
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Volko Ruhnke
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Hi all! Sorry for any confusion from small differences in the wording!

In this case, the correct procedure is the simplest:

In each March origin Region, all that Faction's Revealed Forces go Hidden. Mobile Forces may then either move out of the Region or not. Consider the latter "Marching within the Region". This is true for Roman, Gallic, and Germanic March alike.

Best regards! Volko
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Volko Ruhnke
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As for order, note that there is an erratum for the foldout player aid:

Quote:
FACTION FOLDOUT

March Procedure: Flipping Auxilia or Warbands to Hidden should be first (as per the Rules, before moving; the timing matters for Roman March combined with Scout).
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Giuseppe Tamba
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Thanks Volko!
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