$30.00
Raven Zachary
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was surprised and certainly excited to have both the Triumph & Tragedy 2nd edition and the 2nd edition update kit arrive at my house this morning. I love this game enough that I wanted to have two copies, hence one new game and one update kit. I was thinking there was still a few more weeks to go on this shipment. There are two issues I wanted to share and get feedback on...

Reference Sheets: I was surprised to see that the second edition update kit did not include new reference sheets for the three main powers, as there are a number of typos on these three reference sheets. Going back and looking at the P500 page, these are not specifically called out as part of the update kit, but it would have certainly been a nice addition. I would have gladly paid the extra couple of dollars (or whatever the cost may have been) to receive new reference sheets.

Counters: Both the update kit and the new edition include a mix of counters of different sizes. i am trying to understand what the intent here is. The first edition did not include two sizes of counters, only the smaller ones. The second edition includes larger, thicker, and rounded corner counters, but not enough to actually use exclusively in a game. It looks like you'll have to end up using both the larger and small counters in a game. Any thoughts on why this was done? It seems like there needs to be a larger quantity of either size.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Besinque
Canada
New Denver
BC
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Raven,

I have received a 2nd Ed copy too.

The inclusion of both the promised new larger, thicker markers AND the original small square 1/2" ones surprised me. There must have been a miscommunication there. The intent was only to include the newer type counters in 2nd Ed. To fit that diecutting template we deleted a few Control/Influence markers for each side, but IMO there are still plenty provided -- I have never seen them all used, or even close. Otherwise the marker mix should be identical.

Anyway, just play with one marker set or the other, whichever you prefer. I will use the new larger ones I think. Looks to me like the one errata has been corrected on the small Marker set.

I have not seen a copy of the Update Kit but regarding the lack of Reference cards therein, I will ask what GMT can do about that.

Craig
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raven Zachary
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Craig,

It's great to get your insights into these points. Thank you. I don't believe there are enough of the larger counters included for all outcomes (this condition is likely super rare). It looks like 18 large ones vs. the 22 smaller markers for minor country control. In a game we played the other night, the Soviets only had 2 or 3 counters of the first edition left at game end. They had parts of Poland, Turkey, and Persia, and that used a lot of counters having to mark out specific territories instead of the entire country, plus they had a lot of the Eastern European countries. In a situation where 18 counters per power is not enough, then we'll just use the smaller markers to augment the larger ones. Not a problem.

I would still love to buy new reference cards and/or get them into the update kits.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hannes Sörensson
Sweden
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You don't need markers to show partial control of countries. Either you control the capital, in which case you mark it with one counter and any empty regions are automatically considered under your control, or you control the regions where you have blocks in which case no marker is necessary.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raven Zachary
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aha! I got this rule wrong, then. So, if the Soviets are in Lvov, Poland (and don't control all of Poland), with a unit, they gain population and resources in Lvov, but if those units move away, they lose them? There is no retention of Lvov without units?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Besinque
Canada
New Denver
BC
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Marking Control
Raven,

If I understand you correctly, players were using Control markers to show control of areas of countries whose Capital was controlled by a different Faction.

This is unnecessary. An occupying unit itself is what contradicts Capital Control. If it leaves, it's Control disappears.

Control markers go on Capitals only. All other areas of that Nation are automatically Controlled by that Faction unless they are currently occupied by some other Faction. If that other Faction leaves such an area, its Control reverts to the owner of the Capital. It is not "sticky"!

So you do not need to (and shouldn't) use Control markers in any areas other that Capitals. Barring current Rival occupation, Capital Control always applies.

Played correctly in this way, the counter mix should be considerably more than adequate IMO.

Craig
27 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Besinque
Canada
New Denver
BC
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
ravenme wrote:

Reference Sheets: I was surprised to see that the second edition update kit did not include new reference sheets for the three main powers, as there are a number of typos on these three reference sheets. Going back and looking at the P500 page, these are not specifically called out as part of the update kit, but it would have certainly been a nice addition. I would have gladly paid the extra couple of dollars (or whatever the cost may have been) to receive new reference sheets.


Gang,

Inquired about this and Tony Curtis has just told me that 2nd Ed Reference cards (3) are available from GMT for $3.00 plus shipping. Shipping would be free if combined with a game order.

Craig
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Dolan
United States
Highland Lakes
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It really sucks that gmt nickels and dimes the consumer continually. It gets really old having to buy update kits for 2nd editions and in this case the reference cards are a separate item.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Welshy welshy
New Zealand
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I am broadly OK with the principal of the 2nd Ed update kit, which is why I ordered it, After all I want to support the author and publisher of this great game.

However, I too am disappointed by their (ref cards) omission especially given the errors/erratas required to the original. While I didn't check all the detail, I expected that the update kit should be that. The ref card omission falls short of this IMO.

While I appreciate that GMT has somewhat come to the party with their $3 offer the cost of shipping will make this purchase vastly disproportionate for me in New Zealand, and a real fly in the ointment as I consider this an error/omission on their part.

As an 'alternative supply' proposal, is there any chance of a PDF of the corrected (2nd Ed) ones as this would be a suitable response IMO.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Welshy,

The new components are beautifully done, and I'd rather have the new map now rather than later.

If a subsequent version includes any additional component upgrades (reference cards, action cards, whatever), I'd be happy to purchase them separately when available considering the value of the game experience and how often I find myself playing it.

I also like the idea of PDF postings. As you can see, I've posted two of them already. You can always take the PDFs to a local print shop, choose your card stock, and for the price of a drink or two you're ready to go.

Personally, I'm fine with it considering that I'm playing the game a lot.

Dieter
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Welshy welshy
New Zealand
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Thanks for your feedback Dieter.

Having a re-read my post I do apologize if my tone seems a little harsh. It was unfortunate news at the end of an unfortunate week. It is excellent news if there is a PDF even if it is a community created one available here on board game Geek. This is gone a long way to alleviate my concerns.

Once again my thanks to Craig and the community for the ongoing support of this great game.

Could someone post a link to the updated summary sheets below in order to conclude this thread. Thank you.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Welshy,

There aren't any updated summary sheets yet as far as I can find, but the changes are primarily to the new board. The changes listed by Craig in another thread are:

1936 Setup
Removed 3cv Russian Infantry in Moscow
Added 1cv British Infantry in Karachi
Added 1cv British Fort in Gibraltar

Map and Board
Added Towns in Gibraltar and Malta
Added USA Influence flag in 1941

Azores = Straits
Canada = British Home Territory
Canada = Single area (no Prairies)

Canada-New York = Forest
London-Glasgow = Mountains
Petsamo-Murmansk = Forest
Rumania-Bulgaria = River
Rumania-Belgrade = River
Kars-Tabriz = Mountains
Sahara extends to Suez

Rule Changes
16.6 Hegemony Victory: Blockade effects are excluded
18.0 Two Player Rules: *Half* of Initial Action cards go to Passive Stack, half to Hand
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua O'Connor
United States
Chicago
IL
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
welshy wrote:
I am broadly OK with the principal of the 2nd Ed update kit, which is why I ordered it, After all I want to support the author and publisher of this great game.

However, I too am disappointed by their (ref cards) omission especially given the errors/erratas required to the original. While I didn't check all the detail, I expected that the update kit should be that. The ref card omission falls short of this IMO.

While I appreciate that GMT has somewhat come to the party with their $3 offer the cost of shipping will make this purchase vastly disproportionate for me in New Zealand, and a real fly in the ointment as I consider this an error/omission on their part.

As an 'alternative supply' proposal, is there any chance of a PDF of the corrected (2nd Ed) ones as this would be a suitable response IMO.


Since my game just shipped id be ok with pdf qrs as well.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Love
Australia
Perth
Western Australia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
+ 1 for updated PDFs of the reference sheets, free to download and print.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marco Broglia
Italy
Torino
ITALY
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbesinque wrote:


Inquired about this and Tony Curtis has just told me that 2nd Ed Reference cards (3) are available from GMT for $3.00 plus shipping. Shipping would be free if combined with a game order.

Craig


I have just received the Triumph and Tragedy, 2nd Edition Update Kit, purchased from your distributor in Europe "Udo Grebe Gamedesign".

And incredibly, I realized that does not seem to be complete. The three new 2nd Ed Reference cards are missing.

I apologize, but this is not accettable, I paid for an complete upgrade kit not for a few pieces... OMG

Nice, very nice... according to Mr. Tony Curtis, I now should spend other money to buy the reference cards + shipping + custom cost
and please Craig, ask to Mr. Tony Curtis, where damn would on the GMT website, the page to purchase the Reference cards ?

I have not found anywhere shake

I hope Mr. Tony Curtis was joking and the GMT be in charge of solving the problem as soon as possible. The least the GMT can do is to make available a PDF on their site...

Marco
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Marco,

I was just looking over the Reference cards. The only second-edition correction that I could find is on the Soviet card. It removes the 3-unit CV in Moscow from the initial setup (see map). I think that's the only correction on all three sheets, right?

(Edit: No, missed two British units: 1cv British Infantry in Karachi and 1cv British Fort in Gibraltar)

However, one reference card that you might consider downloading is the
Expanded Area Control Effects Table that I created:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/137555/expanded-area-cont...

I think this reference is important because it's something that a lot of players need to reference from time to time. If you have a local print shop, you can give them the PDF, which they can print on card stock. I'd recommend printing three of them, one for each player. The price would be trivial and you could have it right away.

To make this reference card even more handy, I'm thinking of combining it with the Unit Table and reposting. What do you think?

Dieter
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Ok, I went ahead and created a Unit Summary table and Expanded Area Control Effects table on a single reference sheet. I revised the tables for clarity and convenience.

The upload, which is named Units_and_Area_Control_Tables.pdf, should be available as soon as the BoardGameGeek editors have a chance to review it.

It seems pretty handy to me. Let me know if you'd like me to make any changes.

Dieter
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
It's posted now--go ahead and take a look. Let me know what you think.

Dieter
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M B
France
FONSORBES
Haute-Garonne
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
On GMT website, many files can be downloaded.

Unfortunately, only two Player Aid Cards are available: USSR and West. Does anyone own the Axis one in PDF ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.