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Evolution: Climate» Forums » General

Subject: One viable strategy? rss

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Luke the Great
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I have read the rules and I have one concern regarding balance and strategy. It seems to me that carnivores tend to make climate colder, while others wants warmer climate. Carnivores are ususaly larger than non-carnivores and cold climate kills smaller animals and has negative food, which is also good for carnivores. Non-carnivores prefer warm climate because it kills larger carnivores and has lots of food.

It seems that climate brings very flat layer to the table, but that's just my theoretical analysis. Is this really that simple or am I missing something?
 
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Rex Moore
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Woodbridge
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Lawrence
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You assume everyone either plays a single carnivore or single omnivore. The reality is much more complicated when there are multiple species and climate events on the board.
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Pierre Beri
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Libero03 wrote:
Is this really that simple or am I missing something?
What’s your guess?
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Travis Morton
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The rules are simple, and very easy to grasp for gamers.

Strategy is more like "guiding principles", it is more Adaptive and Tactical than ever when Al Gore's Climate Change kicks in.
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Mark Iradian
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Libero03 wrote:
I have read the rules and I have one concern regarding balance and strategy. It seems to me that carnivores tend to make climate colder, while others wants warmer climate. Carnivores are ususaly larger than non-carnivores and cold climate kills smaller animals and has negative food, which is also good for carnivores. Non-carnivores prefer warm climate because it kills larger carnivores and has lots of food.

It seems that climate brings very flat layer to the table, but that's just my theoretical analysis. Is this really that simple or am I missing something?


Body Size isn't just for predators. It's a way to protect against predators and make use of certain traits.

For example, a four population with six body size alongside with Fat Tissue can devour 10 food PER round.

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Pierre Beri
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MarkyX wrote:
For example, a four population with six body size alongside with Fat Tissue can devour 10 food PER round.
Not exactly. It can eat 10 on the first round of being fat, and up to its population on the next rounds (unless Fat Tissue is replaced with another copy of Fat Tissue).
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Greg Darcy
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beri2 wrote:
MarkyX wrote:
For example, a four population with six body size alongside with Fat Tissue can devour 10 food PER round.
Not exactly. It can eat 10 on the first round of being fat, and up to its population on the next rounds (unless Fat Tissue is replaced with another copy of Fat Tissue).

And more to the point, only the six on the feeding track count to your final score. The others have to move to your feeding track at the beginning of the next season first.

To OP:
I don't understand your complaint. The title is "One Viable Strategy". Then you promptly list two:
1. Go large carnivore and push the climate colder.

2. Go small herbivore and push the climate warmer.

Both would be quite viable in the right circumstances. But of course, you only get one vote in, say, a four player game. And I can think of quite a few other strategies.
How about going for Burrowing Hibernator in a cold climate, and watch that Carnivore starve?
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Pierre Beri
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GregDarcy wrote:
beri2 wrote:
MarkyX wrote:
For example, a four population with six body size alongside with Fat Tissue can devour 10 food PER round.
Not exactly. It can eat 10 on the first round of being fat, and up to its population on the next rounds (unless Fat Tissue is replaced with another copy of Fat Tissue).

And more to the point, only the six on the feeding track count to your final score. The others have to move to your feeding track at the beginning of the next season first.
Just to clarify, any chips on the Fat Tissue go straight into your bag when the card is removed from play or at the end of the game.
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Greg Darcy
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beri2 wrote:
GregDarcy wrote:
beri2 wrote:
MarkyX wrote:
For example, a four population with six body size alongside with Fat Tissue can devour 10 food PER round.
Not exactly. It can eat 10 on the first round of being fat, and up to its population on the next rounds (unless Fat Tissue is replaced with another copy of Fat Tissue).

And more to the point, only the six on the feeding track count to your final score. The others have to move to your feeding track at the beginning of the next season first.
Just to clarify, any chips on the Fat Tissue go straight into your bag when the card is removed from play or at the end of the game.

Thank you.
I just watched GamezMadeEZ: Climate and that was one of several rules he pointed out that I had missed. Well worth watching.
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Luke the Great
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GregDarcy wrote:
To OP:
I don't understand your complaint. The title is "One Viable Strategy". Then you promptly list two:
1. Go large carnivore and push the climate colder.

2. Go small herbivore and push the climate warmer.

Both would be quite viable in the right circumstances. But of course, you only get one vote in, say, a four player game. And I can think of quite a few other strategies.
How about going for Burrowing Hibernator in a cold climate, and watch that Carnivore starve?

Thanks for all the answers. I will play the game once I get sleeves for all new cards. Can't wait for it to be honest. But let's get back to the topic.

By saying "one viable strategy" I meant the "climate" strategy. I was assuming that you don't have a choice regarding climate, because the only viable thing to pursuit if you have carnivores is to make climate colder, and only viable thing to pursuit if you have non-carnivores is to make climate warmer. This turned out to be oversimplyfied as you say and I believe you.

Thanks for all replies. I will gladly explore all new paths the "Climate" offers. Can't wait to play

Cheers!
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Greg Darcy
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Libero03 wrote:

By saying "one viable strategy" I meant the "climate" strategy. I was assuming that you don't have a choice regarding climate, because the only viable thing to pursuit if you have carnivores is to make climate colder, and only viable thing to pursuit if you have non-carnivores is to make climate warmer. This turned out to be oversimplyfied as you say and I believe you.

Thanks for all replies. I will gladly explore all new paths the "Climate" offers. Can't wait to play

Cheers!

You do have a choice with climate. But you don't have full choice. you get to vote on what the climate will do during the upcoming round. But so does every other player. Also you can only vote using the cards you draw. So If you have large carnivores and want the climate to go colder, but only have cards with sun symbols, you need to manage that. And that is part of the game.

One possible strategy for carnivores in a hot climate would be to go for small populous carnivores with pack hunting and intelligence. That would be a very powerful strategy.

Question for Dominic if you are watching:
Is there a way for for body size to "evolve" smaller? The rules only seem to talk about getting larger. If it becomes advantageous for small body size, is the only way to achieve this to kill off the large species and start a new one? Or have I missed (yet another) detail?
 
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Luke the Great
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GregDarcy wrote:
Question for Dominic if you are watching:
Is there a way for for body size to "evolve" smaller? The rules only seem to talk about getting larger. If it becomes advantageous for small body size, is the only way to achieve this to kill off the large species and start a new one? Or have I missed (yet another) detail?

Very interesting. I don't remember rules mentioning this, but I would allow it as a house rule (at cost of a card of course).
 
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David A
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GregDarcy wrote:
Question for Dominic if you are watching:
Is there a way for for body size to "evolve" smaller? The rules only seem to talk about getting larger. If it becomes advantageous for small body size, is the only way to achieve this to kill off the large species and start a new one? Or have I missed (yet another) detail?

I'm obviously not Dominic, but I can tell you this was one aspect of the game that was worked over in play testing and it turns out that the option was nice to have, but it was rarely used since it involved giving up even more cards (aka points).

There's nothing inherently wrong with going this route with a House Rule. It just didn't really provide enough substantial benefit to the game to warrant officially adding it to the rules.
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Official Answer:
Thud105 is exactly correct:
Thud105 wrote:

I'm obviously not Dominic, but I can tell you this was one aspect of the game that was worked over in play testing and it turns out that the option was nice to have, but it was rarely used since it involved giving up even more cards (aka points).

There's nothing inherently wrong with going this route with a House Rule. It just didn't really provide enough substantial benefit to the game to warrant officially adding it to the rules.


It's a fine house rule. We tested it in 2013 for Evolution and again in 2015 for Climate. But we found that it was almost never used, even in Climate when there was good reason to do so. As a rule of thumb, I won't put a rule (making new people sit through more drudgery while learning) unless it's an essential part of the game strategy.
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Matt Parker
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Yeah, it has been discussed in other threads before. Basically, Dom said it would be a house rule to pay a card to decrease body size, but said it would be a very good house rule. It was almost put into the base game actually.

I plan to play Climate with this rule in effect. It makes thematic sense and mechanic sense. And the game is already leaning that direction anyway with Desertification (which lowers body size when triggered).
 
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Adam Webb
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domcrap wrote:
Official Answer:
Thud105 is exactly correct:
Thud105 wrote:

I'm obviously not Dominic, but I can tell you this was one aspect of the game that was worked over in play testing and it turns out that the option was nice to have, but it was rarely used since it involved giving up even more cards (aka points).

There's nothing inherently wrong with going this route with a House Rule. It just didn't really provide enough substantial benefit to the game to warrant officially adding it to the rules.


It's a fine house rule. We tested it in 2013 for Evolution and again in 2015 for Climate. But we found that it was almost never used, even in Climate when there was good reason to do so. As a rule of thumb, I won't put a rule (making new people sit through more drudgery while learning) unless it's an essential part of the game strategy.


You can always use your larger-sized creatures as a sort of buffet line before the climate kills them, if you set up a Carnivore & Scavenger cooperation chain.
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