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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: Dynamite Blast / Backstab rss

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Steve Nix
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It seems strange to me that Dynamite Blast does not include the Fight action in its text, thus it would trigger attacks of opportunity from any engaged enemies that survived the blast. Yet, when engaged by multiple (possibly health > 3) enemies would be an ideal time to use it; even accounting for the self-inflicting damage.

I bring up Backstab in the subject as a comparison card. It is also an event, a tactic, costs less resources to use, but DOES include Fight in its text; so no worry of attack of opportunity.

Just an opinion, but Dynamite Blast would feel more in line with Backstab if it also included Fight (taking into account cost comparison, both events, both tactics, both designed to inflict damage).

Thoughts?
 
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mplain
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Compare Dynamite Blast to Sneak Attack. Both cards deal direct damage without any skill tests involved. But yes, they do provoke attacks of opportunity. On the other hand, Backstab initiates a Fight action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity, but its damage is not guaranteed - you still need to succeed at a skill check. Both types of cards have their advantages and disadvantages.
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David Ainsworth
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Last time I fought a man who brought out a stick of dynamite I just stood and watched as he got it out of his pack, fumbled around in his pocket for some matches and then set the fuse, lit the thing, and threw it. I could have punched him in the head but I totally didn't because I remembered that time when somebody sucker punched me from behind. I didn't have a chance to hit that guy before he whacked me round the head so I didn't think it would be fair to smack the dynamite guy either.

Said noone ever.
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Larry Haskell
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SNix wrote:
It seems strange to me that Dynamite Blast does not include the Fight action in its text, thus it would trigger attacks of opportunity from any engaged enemies that survived the blast. Yet, when engaged by multiple (possibly health > 3) enemies would be an ideal time to use it; even accounting for the self-inflicting damage.




Regarding the highlighted section: whether an enemy survived the blast or not is irrelevant, because the attacks of opportunity happen BEFORE the blast resolves.

From the Rules Reference p. 9 Attacks of Opportunity:

"An attack of opportunity is made immediately after all costs of initiating the action that provoked the attack have been paid, but before the application of that action’s effect upon the game state."
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Eric Martin
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I would recommend throwing the Dynamite Blast from an adjacent location for maximum benefit - no attacks of opportunity and (more importantly) no damage to one's investigator.
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Steve Nix
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mplain wrote:
Compare Dynamite Blast to Sneak Attack. Both cards deal direct damage without any skill tests involved. But yes, they do provoke attacks of opportunity. On the other hand, Backstab initiates a Fight action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity, but its damage is not guaranteed - you still need to succeed at a skill check. Both types of cards have their advantages and disadvantages.


Thanks. I hadn't come across Sneak Attack yet and this is definitely the better card to use as a comparison.

BTW, my initial thoughts had come out of the fiction through play. I was playing a solo investigator and drew Dynamite Blast. Great, I'll ready this for later as I suspect I'll be in trouble with multiple enemies soon. No, it's not an Asset. Hmm. Fine, I'll keep a reserve of resources to use it later as an Event.

Then, through an intersection of Act advancement, Agenda advancement, and Encounter card; I'm engaged by multiple, dangerous enemies. I can't effectively Evade and want desperately to use the Dynamite Blast, but I cannot survive the Attacks of Opportunity that it would trigger.

In hindsight, it seems obvious now why Dynamite Blast shouldn't have Fight (thus why it shouldn't be an Asset to ready in preparation). It would be incredibly disappointing as a player to fail a Fight skill test and have Dynamite Blast do absolutely nothing, as well as fictionally odd.
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Allan Clements
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The Dynamite is much better for Skids than Roland, since he can use his rogue cards to sneak away and throw it back. Roland is usually better suited to just shooting them
 
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Kamakaze wrote:
The Dynamite is much better for Skids than Roland, since he can use his rogue cards to sneak away and throw it back. Roland is usually better suited to just shooting them


Of course, Roland has the HP to just drop dynamite at his feet and still walk away. Tough guy!
 
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Steve Jones
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Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I have a related question. In a multi-player game last night, Roland sacrificed himself by using dynamite and taking a few enemies with him. I didn't bother resolving the attacks of opportunity because he was already defeated.

Reading Larry's rules point above, it seems the attacks of opportunity came before the dynamite exploded. If those attacks would have defeated Rowland (they would have done) would the dynamite still explode? (i.e. was Rowland killed before he managed to detonate it, or just after?) Thanks.
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Larry Haskell
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Edmonton911 wrote:
Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I have a related question. In a multi-player game last night, Roland sacrificed himself by using dynamite and taking a few enemies with him. I didn't bother resolving the attacks of opportunity because he was already defeated.

Reading Larry's rules point above, it seems the attacks of opportunity came before the dynamite exploded. If those attacks would have defeated Rowland (they would have done) would the dynamite still explode? (i.e. was Rowland killed before he managed to detonate it, or just after?) Thanks.


The AoO's happen after you initiate the action and do nothing to prevent the action from resolving. The Dynamite Blast goes off whether Roland survives or not.

EDIT: see ruling from Matt Newman below.
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Edmonton911 wrote:
Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I have a related question. In a multi-player game last night, Roland sacrificed himself by using dynamite and taking a few enemies with him. I didn't bother resolving the attacks of opportunity because he was already defeated.

Reading Larry's rules point above, it seems the attacks of opportunity came before the dynamite exploded. If those attacks would have defeated Rowland (they would have done) would the dynamite still explode? (i.e. was Rowland killed before he managed to detonate it, or just after?) Thanks.


Attacks of Opportunity happen before you resolve the effect that triggers it, yes. So Roland would have been eaten while lighting the fuse, but the dynamite still would have gone off.
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Steve Jones
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Thanks guys. Good to know his sacrifice wasn't in vain . . .
 
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mplain
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In a somewhat similar situation with a Yithian Observer making an attack of opportunity when an investigator plays a card from hand, Matt ruled that if you lose the card that you were going to play before its effect resolves, then you don't get the effect. (Check it out here)

This situation seems similar. Roland initiates a Play action, pays its cost, gets hit by attacks of opportunity, is defeated and eliminated, then:
Quote:
Elimination
Any time a player is eliminated:
1. The cards he or she controls in play and all of the cards in his or her out-of-play areas (such as hand, deck, discard pile) are removed from the game.

And only after that would the action resolve, if not for the fact that Roland doesn't have the Dynamite in his hand anymore -- because there is no hand, and no Roland.

I'm inclined to interpret that the effect of Dynamite Blast will not resolve in this case, just like in the situation with the Yithian Observer.
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mplain
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Yep, got the word from Matt:
Quote:
mplain wrote:
Hi Matt!

One more question!

Roland is in a room full of ghouls, low on health. He decides to sacrifice himself to take the monsters down with him, in order to give Wendy a chance to escape. He plays Dynamite Blast...

...gets hit by multiple attacks of opportunity, and is defeated and eliminated. As per the RRG entry on Elimination, all his cards in play and in his out-of-play areas are removed from the game -- including Dynamite Blast that is still in his hand.

Does the dynamite still explode?

By drawing an analogy with your ruling on Yithian Observer making an attack of opportunity and forcing you to discard Shotgun that you were going to play, I'd say that the ghouls eat Roland before he lights the fuse. Or maybe they eat the fuse...

Thanks!

Greetings!

In this case, Roland would be defeated before he gets the chance to actually play Dynamite. Oh well =(

Matthew Newman
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Steve Jones
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Thanks for that, mplain.

Disappointing for Rowland, but good to get clarity from the designer. Does he answer these kinds of questions on a public forum or do you email him?
 
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mplain
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email, or use the official FFG rules question form.
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