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Subject: Incorrect Rating, (i.e. Garden Competition 7.4) rss

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Heckle Jekyll
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Every once in awhile I notice that the rating under the Game Ranks list differs from that posted on the Games separate listing.

For example, type in Garden Competition on the search under Games.

It comes up with a user rating at 7.4 with Rank number 1144. If you click on the "1144" link it takes you to the list of user ratings which shows it as a 6.2.

So I am a little confused. I am assuming the 7.4 is wrong, but how does this happen?; and how to correct?

 
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Daniel Karp
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7.4 is the raw average rating for the game.

6.2 is the "Bayesian Average." Basically, it is the rating after including a fixed number of dummy votes, to prevent games with just a few 10's from rising straight to the top of the ratings. you can read more about it here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/BoardGameGeek_FAQ#toc...
and a lot more about it here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/146451
and a whole lot more about it here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/157700

 
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Heckle Jekyll
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Thanks for the explanation and also for not scolding me for not otherwise finding this answer myself.

Those posts I am hoping are an interesting read. I am happy to know that the raw rating is displayed and understand the need for a "Bayesian Average." It would be nice though to also be able to see a ranking list of the raw average. Or can we already?
 
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Tim Benjamin
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I've argued in several GeekLists that this application of Bayesian is just WRONG! Good luck with dealing with it.
 
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Rik Van Horn
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Dummies deserve a vote too!
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Kevin Bourrillion
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idiot crow wrote:
It would be nice though to also be able to see a ranking list of the raw average. Or can we already?


Sure! Here's a list of the Top 104 Games when using a raw average:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/search.php3?title=&designerid=&...

As you can see, it's a 104-way tie for first place, between Images, Fractions Supreme Pizza Game, Three-Player Crokinole, Vampire Requiem, Hearts & Spades, Frontline General, Mabinogion, Pirates' Plunder, The Naval War Game, Action Stations! 3rd Edition, Raiders and Blockaders, Down In Flames - WWI - Bombers, Fidchell - Celtic Chess, Springline, Mutant Chronicles Collectible Miniatures Game, Starcraft: The Board Game, Reaper Fantasy Wargame Rules, Encounter One 3rd edition, The Bible TCG, Scream Inn, Crazy Bluff, Topitop - Beach, Dumbass!, Combat Commander: Mediterranean, Lost Treasures, 18MY, Tac Tix, A Most Dangerous Time: Japan in Chaos, 1570-1584, Combat Commander: Pacific, Quack Quack, Bendomino Jr., MiniMonFa Espansione Rigor Mortis, Factors of Spice, Pitch Bowl, OPORD, Murder in Sin City, Killing for the Crown, Power Grid Power Plant Deck 2, Balkan Gambit, Waffen SS - Fuhrer's Firemen, Old World, New World, Gloire, Star Fleet Battles - Module J2: Advanced Fighters, Napoleonic Quick March, Aussie Rules Super Earthling Abductor, MonkeyWinks, Monkey Poker, Waffen-SS: No Quarter No Glory, Ringmaster, Talisman 4th Edition, Solomon's Stones, Simplified War Game, Dollars and Dibble, Zamitar, Lust!, Rumble, Crash Cribbage, Wheel & Deal, Men into Space, The North Atlantic Shipping Game, Big Time Professional Rasslin, Bats Game, The Curious Affair at Dredmoor, Russo-Japanese War, The Munsters Masquerade Party Game, The War in Virginia: 1862-1865, Chaostle, Belly Bumper, Contiquences, Stop, JED, Archegona, Karate Master, Lights Camera Action, What Shall I Be? For Girls, Bean Bag Buccaneers, Even Elephants Forget, Ulti, Storm to the East, Flip-flap, Pro Bowl Live Action Football, Signs, Bratz Twister, Attic Antics, Scoop's Surprises, Space Rockets Ace Trump Game, In Clouds of Glory, BuddhaWheel, Friendzee: Close Connections Edition, Saint Seiya Cardgame Collection, Sun of York, SAD... The Game of Depression, Indiana Jones: Der Weg nach Timbuktu, Locke the Superman, Peanut Panic, O Jogo Legal, RoboCop VCR Game, California Dreams, Dough Nuts!, and The Kites and Darts Game. 105th place goes to Games & Puzzles.
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Kevin Bourrillion
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All right , if we use the typical floor of 30 votes, and exclude expansions, the top games are:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/search.php3?ratingmin=8&ratingm...

Interestingly, wargames really dominate this list. I guess they're just better!
 
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Tim Benjamin
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Kevin,

To be helpful rather than pedantic, consider that 25-30 votes are normally considered a requirement for a valid result. Under that condition, a more sensible (albeit niche driven) list would be obtained.
 
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Chaddyboy
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Quote:
Interestingly, wargames really dominate this list. I guess they're just better!


Yeah, but wargamers are all a big tight group of penny pinchers.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/13315
 
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Daniel Karp
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idiot crow wrote:
Thanks for the explanation and also for not scolding me for not otherwise finding this answer myself.

An unwritten rule of the site (perhaps it should be a written one) is that people are not scolded for asking questions answered elsewhere.

As for the list sorted by raw average--well, you can see for yourself how useful that is, based on the links above.
 
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Daniel Karp
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RaffertyA wrote:
To be helpful rather than pedantic, consider that 25-30 votes are normally considered a requirement for a valid result. Under that condition, a more sensible (albeit niche driven) list would be obtained.

Well, you can see that list from the link above. Between that and the game ranking as BGG calculates them. I think I know which list the vast majority of our users are likely to find more useful.
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Kris Verbeeck
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kevinb9n wrote:
All right , if we use the typical floor of 30 votes, and exclude expansions, the top games are:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/search.php3?ratingmin=8&ratingm...

Interestingly, wargames really dominate this list. I guess they're just better!


It is quite easy to understand why wargames are so highly rated.

Take chess for example. there are over 3000 ratings for it. Chances are you have played it even if your not fond of abstract strategy or a heavy game.
so you can rate it. I have to admit that chess is a brilliant game. But I don't like playing it. So I have given it a low rating.



Now take Eastfront II. Only 43 ratings. Probably all people that are into wargames as well. I have never had the chance of playing it. And probably never will even if I got the chance because I'm not into wargames. So I will never rate it. No chance of getting a lower rating from most of the people that are not into wargames.

Actually 4 lower ratings

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/graphstats/22143

I'm not a big fan of the Bayesian Average. For instance look at the rankings and ratings for TTR. But I believe it is the right thing to do.
Like daniel said : The list based on the Bayesian Average is more usefull. You just have to learn to read it correctly.




 
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