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7 Wonders Duel» Forums » General

Subject: Rank 7 rss

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Dennis _
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Wow, 7WD has finally reached rank 7 (and might even get 6th if it hurries before Scythe catches up). In my opinion, this is way too high for a game which 89% of all users don't see as an outstanding game (rating of 10) and 63% of all users don't even see as an excellent one (rating of 9). In fact, the high ranking comes from almost half of all users (44.8%) seeing this as a very good game, neither better nor worse. Does this justify a Top 10 position?

I read that the BGG rating system prefers games with a low standard deviation. The value for 7WD is 1.1, by far the lowest amongst the Top 10. So I wonder where it would stand without this benefit. Do you think it is justified to reward a lower standard deviation? One could argue the other way round to not privilege "mediocre" games with few "true" fans. What do you think?
 
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Aernout Casier
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I think it's an excellent game. It's by far my favourite 2p game and if a game were ever to be released that has this much depth but accommodates more than 2, it might very well be an instabuy.

Having said that, this is simply the way the BGG ranking system works. I'd be surprised if - under closer inspection - not more of the games in the top 20 would show similar results. Mind you, cult of the new seems to have a bigger impact on the top 100 than it used to. Many, many games are flying up the ranks these days.
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Gergo Tothmihaly
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I don't know more about statistics than the next guy, but that graph looks quite healthy to me. At least more healthy than Pandemic Legacy's or Rebellion's.
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Russ Williams
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Affensohn wrote:
What do you think?

I think almost any ratings system will have arguments you can make against it and arguments you can make for it. All have flaws. Even if most people agreed this was some kind of flaw, "fixing" it would introduce some other anomaly.

Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theore...
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Nick Shaw
United Kingdom
Plymouth
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Well, looking at a few other ranking systems...

Dice Tower People's Choice top 100 for 2016 ranked its big brother, 7 Wonders, as #2. 7 Wonders: Duel, however, was down at #12.

The BGG Top 50 Most Played - October 2016 puts it at #3 most-played game in October (that is, most games logged on BGG which is quite a skewed statistic), ahead of its big brother which is at #8.

The The top 100 most purchased games (October 2016 edition) puts it at #7 most-purchased game (that is, BGG users added to their collection) in October. 7 Wonders is down at #15.

So the skew that BGG voters give to games could be seen as very significant when compared to a more general poll.

Out of interest, as you've quoted percentage stats, what percentage of votes at each level you mention would you think should be appropriate for a game to be in the BGG top 10?
 
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Dennis _
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AernoutMJC wrote:
I'd be surprised if - under closer inspection - more of the games in the top 20 would show similar results.


I took a look on the 6 games above and below 7WD (Top 13, thus).

There is no game with as few excellent ratings:

7WD 11,0%
CoBurgundy 11,8%
Puerto Rico 15,7%
Caverna 17,2%
Agricola 18,4%
Scythe 20,1%
TtA1 21,5%
TMystica 21,7%
MKnight 22,5%
TStruggle 26,9%
SWRebellion 28,0%
PanLeg1 39,5%
TtA2 42,4%

Solely Castles of Burgundy has more ratings <9:

CoBurgundy 64,8%
7WD 63,2%
Puerto Rico 61,3%
Agricola 57,7%
Caverna 57,6%
TtA1 55,3%
MKnight 53,9%
TMystica 52,2%
Scythe 50,3%
TStruggle 47,7%
SWRebellion 41,7%
PanLeg1 32,2%
TtA2 30,1%

7WD has fewest ratings <6 by far:

7WD 1,7%
SWRebellion 2,8%
CoBurgundy 3,0%
TtA2 3,1%
Scythe 3,3%
Caverna 3,6%
Puerto Rico 3,9%
TMystica 4,1%
TStruggle 5,1%
Agricola 5,7%
PanLeg1 5,7%
MKnight 6,0%
TtA1 6,2%

Smallest standard deviation by far as well:

7WD 1,1
CoBurgundy 1,23
Scythe 1,33
SWRebellion 1,35
Caverna 1,37
Puerto Rico 1,39
TtA2 1,45
TMystica 1,46
Agricola 1,56
TStruggle 1,61
MKnight 1,61
TtA1 1,65
PanLeg1 1,84
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Dennis _
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njshaw2 wrote:
Out of interest, as you've quoted percentage stats, what percentage of votes at each level you mention would you think should be appropriate for a game to be in the BGG top 10?


There's no such number. I just would not like to see mediocre games being pushed artificially by prefering lower standard deviation (don't know about the actual extent, though). I'm glad the three games with highest standard deviation are up front and not some very-good-not-excellent-game.
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Shoosh shoo
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My response to anyone questioning the rating of this game (and the others ranked in the top 100 or so games on bgg), AND who has not yet played, I would say if it's ranked among the top 100 or so it's definitely worth checking out. I would say not to take the actual place so seriously, but just understand out of how many thousands of games, enough people think highly of this one that's ranked the way it is.
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Derek Thompson
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Marion
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I rated it a 10 and consider it a far better game than any of the Top 10 except TS or PL (toss-ups there).
 
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DC
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Affensohn wrote:

7WD has fewest ratings <6 by far:

7WD 1,7%
SWRebellion 2,8%
CoBurgundy 3,0%
TtA2 3,1%
Scythe 3,3%
Caverna 3,6%
Puerto Rico 3,9%
TMystica 4,1%
TStruggle 5,1%
Agricola 5,7%
PanLeg1 5,7%
MKnight 6,0%
TtA1 6,2%


Surely this is an argument for 7 Wonders being more broadly popular than the other Top 10 games?

Edit: 7 Wonders, not 7 Wondering.
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Steve T
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Overall & Strategy ranks are both at #7.

7 Wonders... it was meant to be!
 
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Aleksander Idziak
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It's in my top 10 for sure.
Would you prefer a ranking where games that have a lot of great game grades(10) but also a lot of mediocre grades(6 and less) (bigger standard deviation) were higher than games that most consider at least very good?
 
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Dennis _
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I think I might prefer this over the other extreme, yes. In doubt, one could leave out any such preference by the rating system. But I guess, the current one favouring low standard deviations is due to fight fake ratings?
 
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Aleksander Idziak
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Would be nice to be able to see as well ranking based on number of people that consider themselves fans of a game. Looking quickly through top 10 shows that it would look like very different.
 
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JoeyNine
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iselin
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Isn't this the type of game one would want on the top of the list, though? When I first came to BGG, I found the ranking system and made a few purchases based off of what I found there. For new people coming to look at what this vast database deems the 'best' games, I would prefer it list games that aren't wildly hit or miss, but rather are universally accepted as an enjoyable experience. It gives the greatest chance for someone to come back for more and expand their board gaming horizons.
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